S4 Ep 4: The Dos and Don’ts of Dating after Divorce with Sade Curry
May 01, 2024
In this hilarious episode of The Crazy Ex-Wives Club, host Erica Bennett welcomes Sade Curry, the voice behind the "Dating After Divorce" podcast, for a candid conversation about rediscovering oneself post-divorce and the rollercoaster of re-entering the dating world. They dive into the power of setting boundaries, the art of defining your own romance, and the value of prioritizing personal growth. From laugh-out-loud dating app tales to the deep work of unpacking fears and societal expectations, Erica and Sade deliver both guidance and humor. Join them as they explore the five a's of relationship hope and remind listeners why it's worth the wait to find a partner who meets your needs. Tune in for a dose of real talk and some serious self-love inspiration.
Learn More About This Week’s Guest: Sade Curry
Sade Curry is a Dating Coach for Divorced Women and host of the Dating after Divorce podcast. Sade is certified in trauma coaching, feminist coaching, and life & relationship coaching. Sade teaches women real strategies for going through divorce with emotional balance, healing, rebuilding, and finding love again. Her coaching philosophy is to help women succeed by practicing personal leadership and autonomy in their lives, work, and relationships.
Sade is remarried to Kent Curry and they live in St. Louis, Missouri with their blended family of six children.
Free Download: 50 Green Flags of a Healthy Partner for Women Dating After Divorce
Book Recommendations: How To Be An Adult in a Relationship by David Richo
The Dos and Don’ts of Dating after Divorce with Sade Curry FULL TRANSCRIPTS
Erica Bennett [00:00:00]:
Hey, guys, it's Erica. I'm excited for today's episode. I have Sade Curry with us. She is really going to teach you how to hold your ground when you're looking at dating and to just get clear on what you want. She's the host of the Dating after Divorce podcast and has a ton of expertise on helping women navigate that whole new world of dating after divorce. I'm super excited to have her. Let's get started. Welcome to the Crazy Ex Wives Club, a podcast dedicated to helping women navigate the emotional journey that is divorce.
Erica Bennett [00:00:36]:
I'm your host, Erica, and if you're trying to figure out life after the big d, welcome to the club. Whether you're contemplating divorce or dealing with the aftermath or any of the many phases in between, the club has got you covered. Each week, you'll hear stories from women who have been in your shoes. This isn't about spilling tea and divorce details. This is about giving you the tools to take control of your own healing journey. Listen in weekly for advice, tips, and tools to help you move through each stage of the process. Hello. Welcome, Sade.
Erica Bennett [00:01:10]:
How are you doing today?
Sade Curry [00:01:12]:
I'm well, Erica. Thank you for having me on.
Erica Bennett [00:01:15]:
Yeah, thank you for joining. Now, you guys, as I mentioned, Shade hosts a podcast called dating after divorce. So, I had the opportunity to see her in a divorce summit. I instantly loved her energy. Even in my notes, it was like, all caps, LOVE HER ENERGY. Must have her on. I have been looking forward to getting to this recording session with you to really talk about dating after divorce. The kind of the hurdles that come up and all that good stuff.
Erica Bennett [00:01:44]:
Thank you for joining me today.
Sade Curry [00:01:46]:
Absolutely. I can't wait. I'm excited for it.
Erica Bennett [00:01:49]:
Right. And you are also a fellow divorcee and have navigated these waters yourself. Tell us a little bit about that. Maybe some of the learnings you had from your own divorce and how it landed you here hosting your own podcast.
Sade Curry [00:02:03]:
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I have what feels to me like quite a story. I was married for 17 years to a gentleman I met in college. We had a network of friends, so he felt safe. He felt like, oh, yeah, we have the same friends. Turns out he was not safe at all. Had zero relationship skills, a host of other problems. Finally, he filed for divorce, interestingly, at 17 years because I learned to start setting boundaries.
Sade Curry [00:02:30]:
So that's kind of fun. I really have a lot of admiration for the women who were the ones who filed for the divorce because I know the courage it took, and I know that I didn't have that courage to do that. I know that, like, oh, my goodness, these women are like fire. Divorce took three years. So basically, the whole time was 20 years of my life was invested in this relationship. One of the biggest learnings from it, I think, was because I did a lot of work. I did a lot of work to figure out, okay, how did I get myself into this mess? Because I thought I knew what I was doing.
Sade Curry [00:03:00]:
I'm just one of those women who's confident. I make great decisions quickly. I'm like, I feel like I know what I'm doing. And then when I look back at that 20-year investment, I'm like, yeah, you had no idea what you were doing.
Erica Bennett [00:03:12]:
100% agree. You know I was like, oh, yes, I'm an adult, right? You're, like, all in your twenties, and you're like, I'm all grown up. No idea.
Sade Curry [00:03:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. When I did a deep dive, I sort of did a real deep postmortem on the marriage and who I was, because I really wanted to retrieve the person I was before that, and I didn't want to leave her behind. I wanted to identify, you know, who I really was, what I wanted in life, so that I could, like, move on. And one of the things I learned was actually, I have this as an episode on my podcast, why I married my ex. Because I wanted to know so I wouldn't make the same mistake.
Erica Bennett [00:03:47]:
Right.
Sade Curry [00:03:48]:
And I went to that moment when we were dating, and I was like, oh. The reason I picked him over some of the other nicer guys or healthier guys was that I felt like he was this, like, okay, I'm holding up quotes, listeners, alpha male type. But it was really an alpha male attitude coming from being insecure. I interpreted the alpha male type as being, oh, yeah, he can help me with these dreams that I have. I want to build this company. I want to run a business. I want to be in media. I want to do all these things.
Sade Curry [00:04:18]:
And this guy has the energy to help me do it or to be the one who is the muscle behind this. And I did that because I didn't believe in myself. I felt like I couldn't do what I wanted to do. I felt like the dreams that I had wouldn't come to life without a man.
Erica Bennett [00:04:35]:
Yeah, I get that. I don't think I was even as aware when I was picking my then-husband, but I definitely can see that the attraction to the confidence. He was outgoing. He knew what he was doing, and I agree, now that you're saying it, I think I equated that to being the leader, being the alpha male, but he really led nothing in terms of the connection, the communication. We really struggled with communication. I didn't know you had to have it. I thought once you got married, you wanted the same things.
Erica Bennett [00:05:05]:
Aren't we just doing the same things together? I totally get that.
Sade Curry [00:05:10]:
Yeah. My ex turned out to not only be insecure, but also pretty incompetent at a lot of things.
Erica Bennett [00:05:20]:
I don't think I'm in the place to judge competency around my ex, but I would say he loved to let somebody else do the work. So, like, when he was unhappy in his job, I rewrote his resume and I applied for him, and I was like, literally all you have to do is show up. And he still wouldn't. Like, I'm like, you're unhappy. Change the behavior. Like, anyways, okay, so we're talking about.
Sade Curry [00:05:42]:
The same thing, but we're like, you're being kinder because I got my ex into grad school. Yeah. I did his entire grad school application. The essays, the whole thing. Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:05:56]:
You guys, you listeners, see the things that us women do trying to help these men move forward. The point is, don't do it a second time. Like, yes, help your partner, but they've got to put the effort in too. Like, that was a big learning for me, is that it takes two people, both growing, both being willing to grow, both showing up for the hard lessons, and both owning their own shit. And so, like, taking it away and working on their own stuff.
Sade Curry [00:06:24]:
Yeah. What was fun about that? He eventually did not go to grad. He refused the grad school thing. He didn't go to do it, but I tried to go back. I hadn't finished my undergrad when we got married. During the divorce, I tried to calculate how many times I had tried to go back to college. Ten times. And every single time, he would sabotage it.
Sade Curry [00:06:45]:
I was so codependent that I wasn't investing in myself, but I was investing in this person. And when I did try to invest in myself, he would sabotage it. And he just never. I just never saw it.
Erica Bennett [00:06:57]:
Yeah. And it's so common, you guys, and it doesn't. In the moment, it doesn't feel like they're sabotaging it. It doesn't. It just feels like, oh, this would really make the relationship hard. It would really hurt that person. Can I do more? Can I take on more? Can I bend more? To your point of once you started establishing boundaries, which I always thought boundaries were like the line in the sand, do not cross the line. But boundaries are just like, hey, this is what I need to be my best self.
Erica Bennett [00:07:23]:
And if you can't give me what I need, and I can't give me what I need because you're asking for other stuff, then I gotta walk. Then I gotta go somewhere else. So, yeah, the boundaries are so important.
Sade Curry [00:07:35]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:07:39]:
Hey, there. It's EriCa, your companion on this journey at The Crazy Ex-Wives Club. I want to make sure that you're aware of all the tools at your disposal as you navigate through this chapter of your life. First off, head over to the website, www.thecrazyexwivesclub.com. Take The Finding Your Way Forward Quiz. It's designed to give you personalized insights, key behaviors you can start doing right now, and it won't cost you a thing. Then, if you're looking for a bit more support, check out services. There are on demand resources.
Erica Bennett [00:08:10]:
There are coaching programs, and there are other support options to help you in your healing process. I value having you in this community, being a weekly listener and sharing it with those people in need. Thank you for walking this path with me together.
Sade Curry [00:08:29]:
So, you know, long story short, divorced at, I think that was, like, about 40. When did I go back on the market? I went back on the market at about 42 and jumped right in. I think most of us jump right in. Everyone downloads the apps and kind of lurks to see what's out there. It did not occur to me that this was like a whole journey. I was like, I'll be on there. There'll be some guys.
Sade Curry [00:08:52]:
I'll go on dates, and then I'll pick one. Like, I'm a great gal. Like, I'm cute.
Erica Bennett [00:08:58]:
Yes, I had the same. And then, you know, 500 swipes in or something, and you're just like, oh, my God, this is so hurting my mind. This is not working.
Sade Curry [00:09:11]:
It was not working. I made all the mistakes in the book. Like, so for me, like, you know, like you said, was it a learning journey? It was really a learning journey. I am a learner, so I learned from it. But it wasn't, like, a pretty curriculum kind of learning. It was like, that didn't work. Kind of like learning. I dated all the wrong guys.
Sade Curry [00:09:29]:
There was one guy who strung me along for months. Future faking. And now there's a word for what he was doing, which is future faking.
Erica Bennett [00:09:36]:
Oh.
Sade Curry [00:09:37]:
Where he pretends there's gonna be a future, and he knows how to, like, just sprinkle in things that you've said you wanna do in the future to get you on the hook. Like, every time, I was like, you know what? This isn't working. I'm out. He would, like, come back in this, like, kind of subtle, soft way. Talk about wanting to travel to Norway to see the northern lights. Just stuff. And I was like, dang. So that was probably about three months of.
Sade Curry [00:10:03]:
He would disappear. Ghost. Then there was the guy, the cute British guy who took me out on one date. Treated me so well. I was giving it. I mean, he was really a lot shorter than I am, but I was like, this guy's nice. And then we had a phone call, and then he ghosted. And then I proceeded to call him what feels now like, 20,000 times.
Sade Curry [00:10:25]:
I'm guessing he blocked me at some point. I didn’t know any better, right? I love it.
Erica Bennett [00:10:31]:
The reason I love it is because, like, you guys, we are all crazy, and it's fine. Like, because we can laugh about it.
Sade Curry [00:10:38]:
When you can get to the point.
Erica Bennett [00:10:40]:
That you can laugh about some of the over-the-top things you've done, then, you know, you've done the healing work, because it just is what it is. I love that. I had one guy who sent me, like, we were just chatting, just barely chatting. Sent me, like, you know, a shirtless photo of him. No head, just, like, body shot, right? And I was like, wow, did you just come back from the gym? Because I. We had been talking a lot about working out, and he's like, no, just saying good morning. And I was like, well, you're overly confident in yourself, aren't you? Because I just was like, dude, I don't know you. Okay.
Sade Curry [00:11:13]:
Yeah, yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:11:14]:
Then he called me a prude and a Karen and said he doesn't waste his time on somebody who's such an ass. And I was like, okay, well, you don't even know, like, who I am. I'm all for the pictures when you actually want them. Not, like, the third. Hello like, you open the app, and you're.
Sade Curry [00:11:33]:
Like, okay, yeah, I got one picture from a guy who was wearing his boxers. So, you know, but it was. It was so tiny. It was so small.
Erica Bennett [00:11:44]:
God, the pictures. I know. It is such a thing.
Sade Curry [00:11:48]:
Don't send these to anybody.
Erica Bennett [00:11:52]:
That's the thing. There's not even any sort of, like, desire built yet. And some dudes are just throwing those photos out, and I'm like, like, okay, okay. Yeah. Yes, I did receive one of those where I was like, ooh, don't send this to anybody else. Like, let me just help you out. Don't do that. Oh, yes.
Erica Bennett [00:12:11]:
The fun. The fun. Okay, so, yeah, so you had. You did all the things?
Sade Curry [00:12:15]:
I did all the things. And then, you know, I started, like, bringing in the learnings from, like, my own coaching and therapy and what I was doing in that and applying them to my dating. It was like, in my coaching, I was doing things like rediscovering myself, self-discovery. I was working a lot on people pleasing and codependency. That was a really big rock for me. And as I started doing those, even though I'd been dating, I started seeing parallels where I wasn't showing up like my real self when I was dating. I was simply on the apps, hoping for Prince Charming to swipe right.
Erica Bennett [00:12:48]:
Right.
Sade Curry [00:12:49]:
I was doing my best, but I was like, oh, I'm not putting my real self out there, because I would discover parts of myself as I was, you know, doing my self-discovery, dreams, goals. I'm like, well, that's not on here. This doesn't look and sound like the woman you think you are. I was improving slowly over time, and I remember the day I had a breakthrough with my dating. It was a week where one more round with the guys that you don't even want to see, but you're like, I don't want to be too picky. Let me give him a chance. Blah, blah, blah.
Sade Curry [00:13:19]:
Talk to this guy. We set up a date, and then he stopped talking to me, and I was like, okay. I just figured he'd ghosted me, so I was like, well, let me move on. I texted and just said, hey, are we still on for, I think the date was supposed to be, like, on a Friday or Wednesday or something. I said, hey, are we still on for this date? And then he replied, yes. Here's someone who wasn't communicating, wasn't responding, and then when I asked about our date, it was just a one word, yes. And I'm like, I didn't even want to swipe right.
Sade Curry [00:13:44]:
Yeah, like, what am I doing? And I was like, okay, this is ridiculous. This is obviously not the same energy that I'm putting out there or the same energy that. That's not true. It was the energy I was putting out there, but it wasn't the energy that I carried in my person. And I said, okay, that's it. I don't want to go on any more weird dates. I really want, even if I only go on one date a month, I want it to be with a guy.
Sade Curry [00:14:09]:
He doesn't have to be my husband, but a guy who at least matches my energy. Then I changed my whole profile to match my energy. I put everything out there. Who I was, my achievements. I wasn't afraid of intimidating anybody. I wasn't afraid of appearing too opinionated. Of course, I did it in a classy, kind way, but it was like, no, this is the real me.
Sade Curry [00:14:29]:
To the point that I had a photo on my profile of a display from a local bookstore. The month where Donald Trump had made the statement, people from shithole countries, he referred to African countries as shithole countries. I'm from an African country. My local bookstore had made a display of books of some of the greatest writers from Africa, and said, “writers from shithole countries.” And I had taken a picture. And so what? That moment really encapsulated a lot about me. That I read books, that I had strong opinions about, politics, that I was from Africa, all the things. And I was like, yes, this is me right here.
Sade Curry [00:15:04]:
And I kid you not, two days later, my husband swiped right on me. Two days later, I also raised the age. I opened the gap, the age range a little bit that day, two days later. And he told me that, like, when he saw that I had swiped right back on him, he was like, yes, he was that excited to meet me.
Erica Bennett [00:15:24]:
Right? That's the trick, you know, especially when you first start dating. That everybody goes out there, right? Everybody starts swiping, and all you hear is all these horror stories. And, yes, we just shared some, too. And we didn't even go that deep into, like, some of the crazy conversations. But what changes it from being like that to being better fit is when you choose to show up. And for myself, it, you know, oh, I don't want. I don't like writing a bio. I don't like writing a personal profile. Can somebody else write it for me? And much like yours, I was struggling to write it.
Erica Bennett [00:15:54]:
And then finally I was like, idgaf, right? And I was like, I got one son, one dog, and a 250-pound back squat. Like, what do you want to talk about? And that was it. And I was so, like, I am done with the bullshit. I'm not going to like, oh, I love to travel, and I love to do this, and I love to whatever. I just felt, I don't have time for it. Here's the deal. This is what's important to me. And then it starts to change.
Erica Bennett [00:16:20]:
That's the first piece.
Erica Bennett [00:16:21]:
Because then who you match with starts to change. And now you got to bring in the second part, which is, who are you when you show up? What is that energy that you bring to the conversation and finding your worthiness to truly stand in who you are instead of trying to create a profile that you think people are going to pick.
Sade Curry [00:16:38]:
Yeah. If you create a profile that people are going to pick, then you're overwhelmed with all of these guys that aren't a match, and then you're exhausted because you're having all these conversations, conversations that don't nourish you at all.
Erica Bennett [00:16:48]:
Yeah. And I would ask you if you created a profile where everybody is picking you, what do you want? Like, now you're just in the place, right, where I just hope somebody picks me again so that I'm not alone.
Sade Curry [00:16:59]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:17:00]:
But there's lots of people out there. There's lots of people. You want to make sure you pick somebody that you want to be with for the rest of your life, not just, oh, please, let somebody pick me. Who am I? Right. I'm divorced or I got kids, or I'm not the same size I was before. I don't have the clothes I want to wear anymore. Like, stop all that. There's a whole person that you've built through all these experiences, and that's who the right match will find.
Erica Bennett [00:17:27]:
But you got to show up. You got to post the pictures and make the comments of who you really are.
Sade Curry [00:17:31]:
Yeah. You have to believe that who you really are is amazing. Yeah. Because otherwise, you won't put her out there. If you're busy thinking, like you said, oh, I have baggage. If you're thinking of yourself as broken, used goods, who would want me? I hear this a lot. Like, what do you mean, who would want you? Seriously, you're incredible. But doing that self-discovery work is what sort of solidifies it in your mind that you are incredible, because I had forgotten how incredible I was.
Sade Curry [00:17:57]:
I mean, I had little glimmers of it, but I had to do the work to retrieve it. The day I met my husband. I met my husband on a Saturday, so we'd gone on our first date on Sunday. My coaching calls were Monday with my coach. My first coach was a man, which I'm thankful for. You know, I think having a man, like, speak to me in that, like, mentor space did something for me, along with, you know, all my other women coaches. I walked into the zoom call.
Sade Curry [00:18:22]:
Walked into the zoom call. Sorry. I turned on the zoom call, and the first thing I did was I started. I started, like, as you say, sabotaging the. I said, I met someone nice yesterday. He seems cool, but it always flops. And these guys are always on, blah, blah, blah. And he was just like, why are you doing that? Like, why won't you believe that you can have something good? Like, we don't know who this guy is, but, like, it sounds like you had a really good time.
Sade Curry [00:18:44]:
And I was like, yeah, you're right. And I just really cut. I just made that decision in that moment that I wasn't going to sabotage myself ahead of time.
Erica Bennett [00:18:51]:
Yeah. You know, I found myself doing that. I still find myself doing that. I'm sitting in this two-year relationship, and I will still catch myself doing that. Because it's a protective mechanism, right? And you don't want to get your hopes up because you don't want to be hurt again. You create all these stories, you play it down, you play cool, you do whatever, and until you're willing to actually like, oh, I want to put my heart on the line, or maybe I'm not ready to put my heart on the line, but I'm trying. Right. Because that's what's got to happen to be able to move forward.
Erica Bennett [00:19:23]:
But your little protective mechanism will always show up. It's always going to try and prevent that. This big hurt, this biggest hurt that has ever happened to you in your life, it keeps trying to stop it.
Sade Curry [00:19:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think mine was trying to keep me from being disappointed again.
Erica Bennett [00:19:37]:
Yeah.
Sade Curry [00:19:38]:
You know, after meeting someone great and then finding out that they weren't interested. Yeah, you're right. 100%.
Erica Bennett [00:19:44]:
You know, it's scary to hope again. That's a scarier place to be, to hope that something could work out because you don't have control. You don't know what's going to happen. And you're saying, like, I really like this thing. I really want this thing to stay. And then it doesn't. Right? And like, oh, my gosh, I can still feel it. Like, actually physically in my body, the concept of starting over.
Erica Bennett [00:20:04]:
Right? Oh, my God, I have to go do it again. Oh, my gosh, I have to turn the app back on again. I have to start in all these beginning conversations again. Why can't somebody just stay? But, like, flipping that to be like, thank God the wrong one didn't stay again.
Sade Curry [00:20:20]:
Yes, a hundred percent. 100%. And I know this didn't happen to me specifically, but several of my clients and women that I've talked to sort of have this, like, their exes planted this thing in their head where it's like, oh, no one's ever going to want you. Yeah, it keeps coming back and keeps coming back. It's like an obsessive thought that plays in the background, especially if the ex has moved on, quote unquote moved on. That can be really hard to believe that in spite of being ghosted or relationships that didn't work out, you will find the person for you at some point.
Erica Bennett [00:20:50]:
Yeah, that is definitely more of a female trait of getting divorced. You know, I see far fewer men take it personally. I see them just be like, it didn't work. Yeah, it sucked. Yeah, it hurt. But, like, moving on. And women instead are like, oh, my gosh, this is an attack on who I am, my worthiness, all of the stuff. They internalize it.
Sade Curry [00:21:13]:
What are your thoughts about why that is? Like, why women internalize that?
Erica Bennett [00:21:18]:
My thoughts are developing on this, but I saw a really amazing post, and what it talked about was, as a woman, we created these mile markers of what it means to be a successful woman.
Sade Curry [00:21:35]:
Yes.
Erica Bennett [00:21:35]:
To be honest, because I'm not saying you're a successful employee, because that, to me, doesn't matter if you're male or female, but to be a successful woman, what do we vote or what do we value in her life? Did she get married? Did somebody pick her? Not who did she pick? Did somebody pick her? Did she have kids? Does she maintain a house? Right? Does she maintain the relationships? Right. It's those pieces that even if, you know, like, I worked, I was always full-time corporate worker, but the hats that I wore. Right. Were, how was I pinning away? And what was. What boards did I have for food and making little crafty things at home and helping the development of my child, more so than the work accomplishments.
Sade Curry [00:22:24]:
Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think 100% women are socialized to see our trajectory and see those mile markers as being, all right, I did it. I'm successful. I have value. Those things are the badges that we hold up to say, hey, I'm worthy.
Erica Bennett [00:22:39]:
Yeah. And I think even when you have a relationship, you know, like, as things change right now in the dynamics and relationship, and you have men stepping more into that, you know what I'll say, quote unquote, as a traditional mothering role, you know, I think that we still put more judgment on how the mom does it. Right. Because if a dad is stepping into the role of being the more mothering side. Maybe he's staying home and she's going to work. So maybe he's got more of the kid’s full time or he's doing more of the meals or more of the home care. I think that we are all like, wow, hats off. Look at him go.
Erica Bennett [00:23:13]:
Right? Like, he could be ordering McDonald's every day, which there's no judgment on. McDonald's, that was my favorite childhood restaurant. But I'm just saying, like, he could be ordering fast food every single day and we would still be sitting there being like, wow, he's doing such a great job. Because, like, culturally, we've just created these subconscious judgments. And that's why I think that when a marriage falls apart, you know, because again, it ties into like, a man can build the house, but a woman brings the home. Right? We've all heard of this. The man can build a structure, but the woman brings in the softer touches.
Erica Bennett [00:23:47]:
Okay, well, what is the marriage? The marriage has a structure of a relationship, but it's the softer touches that supposedly make it work.
Sade Curry [00:23:55]:
Yep.
Erica Bennett [00:23:55]:
Right. If you don't have communication to talk about the softer touches of the feelings, it's not working. Like, if you don't have the connection, which a woman doesn't want a physical connection with you unless she has an emotional and a mental connection with you. Okay, those are the softer touches. If those softer touches aren't happening, I think women, we also, we carry that burden of thinking, if I can just love more, I can change this person.
Sade Curry [00:24:21]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:24:22]:
And I can save this thing. Then when it fails, we take it all on.
Sade Curry [00:24:27]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:24:27]:
I have shared, you know, mine ended due to infidelity. For years he had had multiple affairs and yet I still was like, oh, I must have done this to me.
Sade Curry [00:24:36]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:24:36]:
I'm not saying he was right in what he did, but I contributed to this. I was really negative. I was really nasty to be around. I wasn't any fun. Remember I was out at brunch one day and it was one of the newer friends I had made from the gym. And it was a guy talking some guy sense into me and he’s said, “I’m sorry, but when are you actually going to be pissed about the fact that he’s the one that cheated? I’ve been listening to you for an hour talk about what you have gone differently. When are you going to get pissed?” And I thought “oh, I can do that.”
Erica Bennett [00:25:09]:
I left and went to the car, and I was thought, yeah, I can get pissed. I can be mad about this.
Sade Curry [00:25:16]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:25:17]:
But I think we do that, and then I think it carries over. We carry it like, a little shadow with us, this baggage, and it's safe to put the baggage down, you guys, when you move forward. Yes, it wasn't yours alone, but learn from it. But it wasn't yours alone, and it's not yours to take with you.
Sade Curry [00:25:34]:
Yeah. And to turn off the voice own internalized critic. So, of course, the culture criticizes women, but we absorb that, and we internalize it. So now we're criticizing ourselves for all those little things, even, like, homemaking, like you said. I mean, I got coaching from, you know, one of my coaches for several months about just detaching what my home looked like from my person. Like, this is the home, and this is you.
Sade Curry [00:25:59]:
Not the same thing.
Erica Bennett [00:26:00]:
Yeah. And that's where I think, like, I don't know. I just think, too, about, you know, magazines and social media accounts and trying to chase what you're supposed to look like and what you're supposed to feel like. And to me, that was, like, one of the great parts about COVID shutting down is you get to wear whatever the heck you wanted to wear. You were in your house, right? Like, figure out what did you like? Not what. What did you have to do? Not what did you maintain to try and be part of the culture? What did you actually want to do with your time?
Sade Curry [00:26:33]:
Yeah. And I question women who work with me who come to me and say, okay, can you help me find a partner? I'm like, the first thing I want to know is, do you even really want a partner? Like, not everyone wants a partner. Not everyone truly wants a partner. And I ask them, why? Why do you want a partner? And they give me reasons that sound like it's just social conditioning. I'm like, hey, we need to pause here for a couple of weeks so that you have a why that you know is true to you, so that you don't get into something else that's now another journey that you have to end later. Even if it's a good journey. You don't want to wake up and find out that you put your ladder against the wrong tree.
Erica Bennett [00:27:09]:
Yeah.
Sade Curry [00:27:10]:
The world is so much bigger than having a partner and getting married.
Erica Bennett [00:27:14]:
Yeah. But let's dive into that, because that was a thing for me, and I didn't know it.
Sade Curry [00:27:19]:
Okay.
Erica Bennett [00:27:19]:
So, growing up, I had the very stereotypical house. It was a family of five. My parents were married until my dad passed away. We literally had a white picket fence out front. We had a dog and two cats. Like the stereotypical apple pie. Yes, yes. My grandma makes the best apple pie.
Erica Bennett [00:27:39]:
Now I make it. Okay. Exactly. I never saw my parents’ fight. I never saw them discuss anything because all of those were done after hours. And actually, I don't even know if they did fight. I'll have to ask my mom.
Erica Bennett [00:27:53]:
But, like, any big conversations about what they want to do or how they're going to split the bills or where we go on a family vacation, I never saw the work that had to go into getting it there versus I just saw everything. Everything went. Which is why when I got married, I thought, great, we decided to get married, which means now we want to buy a house and we want to have kids and we want to have dogs and we want to have family birthday parties on the weekend. And, like, that's the story. And I didn't realize you had to talk about it and that you have differing of opinions. Right. And you have. You're literally merging.
Erica Bennett [00:28:26]:
And so now we flash forward and I still laugh, and I'll still say it to my current partner where I'm like, fudge. I didn't realize how hard being in relationship is and even harder after you're divorced, and everybody's got kids. Trying to merge those paths is really hard. But I just thought if you would have asked me that, you know, why do you want a partner? Well, because I want to share things with somebody else. Right. I literally wanted an assistant to come make my life easier.
Sade Curry [00:28:54]:
Yeah. Right.
Erica Bennett [00:28:55]:
Like, I just wanted somebody to split the bills with. And when I wanted to travel somewhere, somebody who wanted the same thing and came with. Right. And this idea that, how do you compromise? How do you meet mutual needs when maybe they're not always the same?
Sade Curry [00:29:08]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:29:08]:
That was really hard. What advice do you have for listeners on that?
Sade Curry [00:29:14]:
My advice, this is. And this is new advice. This is new. Something new that I've been telling people, start reading marriage books while you're dating. Yeah. Because the marriage books tell you what you're trying to build.
Erica Bennett [00:29:26]:
Right. And they tell you, here's the common problems. If you know where the thing is going to fall apart, fix it sooner. Right.
Sade Curry [00:29:34]:
You can pick someone who doesn't have those problems. Yeah. I was talking to someone the other day and I was like, I really think married people should be reading dating books because then they get into a rut and they let everything slide, and everyone's, like, just talking logistics. And then single people should be reading marriage. I talked to a single person today, and I was like, hey, you know, have you read John, any of John Gottman's books and the four horsemen that caused relationships fall apart? She'd never heard of him. Yeah. She hadn't been married. Yeah.
Sade Curry [00:30:02]:
I was like, oh, sis, go read that. Because the guy you want is in that book. You need to look out the ingredients so that when you're picking a guy, he has the ability to do that kind of work with you.
Erica Bennett [00:30:15]:
Yeah, that is a hard concept, too. For me, it was a struggle. I really did want the Disney fairy tale. I wanted the fireworks. You know, I wanted this uncontrollable knowledge and knowing and, like, fate coming to bring us together. Right. And that's not good, you guys.
Sade Curry [00:30:34]:
That's not good.
Erica Bennett [00:30:35]:
That's usually anxiety actually, in your stomach, not butterflies. When I found a relationship that was relatively steady, you wonder if it's not right. Aren't I supposed to feel something more? Aren't I supposed to have a big whoosh? But to your point of, like, you're doing a job interview, which we don't want to hear. We don't want to hear because we want it to be romantic. But the reality is, is you're trying to pick a partner that you're well suited to work with for the rest of your life.
Sade Curry [00:31:04]:
Yeah. And let's talk about this concept of romance. Like, where did it come from? You know? Like, we made this up, right?
Erica Bennett [00:31:10]:
Right. Like, when did it become. And that's the thing, too. Cause I'll even. I was just before our call, looking at somebody was like, oh, my gosh. My partner is so romantic, and he always does the nicest things. And that's our anniversary. And I was like, when did we say that being the romantic partner was the best partner? Because we've created that story, too.
Erica Bennett [00:31:31]:
Like, if he doesn't bring chocolates and flowers and make this big deal and rose petals and everything else, well, that's the only real knowing that he truly loves you.
Sade Curry [00:31:41]:
Yeah. I never want to downplay it or diminish it for those who do want it.
Erica Bennett [00:31:46]:
Yeah.
Sade Curry [00:31:47]:
My husband is very romantic, so, like, I appreciate that about him. It's that you could find someone who's a romantic fit as well. So just like you want someone whose sex drive is similar to yours, look for someone who’s romantic, quote unquote, drive is similar to yours, and knowing that it's a choice, because I also see people who, I actually have a client. When she was in her twenties, she was dating this really nice guy, but he wasn't very romantic. And her friends all, like, descended on the relationship and encouraged her to break up with him because he wasn't very romantic, and she's regretted it ever since. But there's love, and then there's romance. And I always tell my clients, okay, let's define romance for you, because, like, not everybody has it. Chocolate.
Sade Curry [00:32:27]:
Like, if my husband didn't buy me chocolate, I will pick better chocolate, so I'll buy my own chocolate. Right? And, you know, he'll get me flowers. I appreciate those. But what I really consider romance is, listen, take me somewhere good to eat. Let the food taste amazing, something I haven't had before. Let the ambience be glorious. Plan a surprise vacation or take me to an experience. That's what I define as romance.
Sade Curry [00:32:54]:
I always tell my clients, listen, just define it. Let's define what romance is for you so you're not going by the tv or what your friends say, and you're not distracted by things you don't really want.
Erica Bennett [00:33:04]:
Yeah. And I think that that's so key, though, you guys. These pillars or areas. All you're doing is evaluating if you guys have similar likes around it. Like, I am honestly not a very romantic person, but do I like to be swept off my feet every once in a while? Yes. Do I want it every weekend? No. Like, I don't want you to buy me chocolate. I actually straight up don't want flowers.
Erica Bennett [00:33:29]:
I don't like flowers. I don't like them. They take up my whole counter. I told the boyfriend, I was like, look, I like Gerber daisies. I like even one. Even one is. That is super romantic to me because it's very specific and it's what I like. Don't waste money on a dozen long stem red roses.
Erica Bennett [00:33:47]:
Let's go out to dinner somewhere, or let's go on a trip somewhere. Like, let's go to the beach. Let's do something with it.
Sade Curry [00:33:53]:
And it's the little things that come from the heart. The most romantic thing my husband ever did for me was, like, I think for our third or fourth date, he's so cute. He typed up this little note inviting me on our third date. And then he put a little avatar on it, and then he used, like, this wavy font, and he was like, it would be my honor.
Erica Bennett [00:34:17]:
So cute.
Sade Curry [00:34:19]:
Cute is more romantic than, like, elaborate. And so, everyone, like you said, everyone's different.
Erica Bennett [00:34:24]:
Totally different. Yes. The current partner is romantic by buying me water filters and air purifiers because. Here's the other thing, you guys. I didn't realize that's what was happening. Because at my house, I have an air purifier because I have really bad allergies and me. He didn't have one at his house. Well, I just thought he had learned that my way was better because my way is always better. No, it's just so, like when all of a sudden, he bought an air filter, I thought it was because I had been talking about them and how important it was.
Erica Bennett [00:34:55]:
And same thing with the water. I was like, oh, I don't really like the taste of your water, but that's cool. I'll just buy water when I come over. Because for tea, it tastes different when you heat it up. Well, he ends up, like, installing this entire purification system. I have no idea it was for me. I thought it was because I talked about the water.
Erica Bennett [00:35:11]:
I told him he's got to tell me. He's got to tell me these things because I don't notice that I've talked about this thing that he has now grasped. And now he's meeting a need. He's heard a need in me. He's meeting a need. He's delivering on it. That is his version of being romantic. He is providing.
Sade Curry [00:35:29]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:35:30]:
He is not going to buy me flowers. Yeah. Just be aware, be aware. Because there's so many ways.
Sade Curry [00:35:37]:
Yeah, he was paying attention. Yeah. Like, one of the books I love on relationships is how to be an adult in relationships by David Rico, one of my favorites. He does a great job.
Erica Bennett [00:35:48]:
Yes.
Sade Curry [00:35:48]:
He mentions the five a's of relationship hope. I can remember. I can usually remember four.
Erica Bennett [00:35:53]:
My friend just read this book, and She’s like, oh, my God, you need this book.
Erica Bennett [00:35:57]:
You need this book.
Sade Curry [00:35:58]:
You need this book. It is a great book. I've been recommending to everyone, but one of them was attention. Attention, appreciation, affection, allowing and acceptance. And attention is the first one, I think, like, you can't know someone if you're not paying attention to who they are, and if you don't know them, then you can't really love them. But he's like, modeling that so beautifully. He's paying attention and then he's, like, taking it in and he's doing something about it. He's showing up.
Erica Bennett [00:36:22]:
Let's not talk too much about him, or he'll listen to this episode, and then I'll never hear the end of it, he'll be like, look at all the things I do for you. No.
Sade Curry [00:36:30]:
Yes. I have that husband. I have that husband. He'll be like, listen..
Erica Bennett [00:36:36]:
No, I mean, the big key thing, you guys, is like, evaluate in these big pillars of your life. If it's really important that somebody bring you little gifts or bring you flowers, then make sure that's known. Share what's important to you. And if that's not their style, then your question is, can I live without it or do I need to pick somebody else? Because those are things that you can't change about somebody. Those are patterns. They can change in the short term. Right. Somebody can show up in the short term and bring you more flowers, but they're going to revert to their old patterns.
Erica Bennett [00:37:06]:
And there's nothing wrong with that person. You're just at different levels. You're at different levels of what you need for it. Being able to get clear while you're dating, like, hey, huh? He doesn't value those things like I do. Is that going to be a problem or not? It depends on what you want to deal with.
Sade Curry [00:37:21]:
Right. And it makes it easy on the other person. So why not pick someone for whom it is easy to do for you what you want? Yes, but he's not struggling to love you. If the man is struggling to love you the way you need to be loved, then maybe he's not for you.
Erica Bennett [00:37:36]:
Right? We're not. You don't have to change. I think that's a really big lesson. Right? Because society is like, oh, you're asking too much. No, you can ask for whatever the heck you want to ask for, but just know that not every partner is going to be the one that delivers it to you.
Sade Curry [00:37:51]:
Yeah. And it's way worth it to wait for the one who delivers it. And the clearer you are upfront, the faster you'll find the person who can deliver it. Because you said it. You said it on your profile, you know, you said it on the first date. And of course, I teach my clients to kind of weave it in. We don't come with, like, a laundry list, but expressing who you are and how you live in a very real way makes it easy for the man to know if it's for him or not.
Erica Bennett [00:38:15]:
Yeah. We're going to have one more funny story. I went on this date once, and it was the first date at brunch in like, you know, a kind of family establishment. And the guy starts talking about, he's like vanilla, only has a place as an ice cream flavor. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, what? Like, I couldn't figure out how he jumped to this topic of vanilla, and then I realized he was like, 50 shades of gray. He was talking about vanilla sex over our first freaking meeting in the middle of this brunch. And I'm like, yeah, I get it. Yes, you do need to clarify what you like and what you're looking for.
Erica Bennett [00:38:50]:
This was not the time. Weave it in you guys.
Sade Curry [00:38:56]:
Weave it in.
Erica Bennett [00:38:58]:
Don't hide it. But, like, don't show up with a checklist on the first date and be like, do you want kids? Okay. Do you want this? Okay.
Erica Bennett [00:39:07]:
Yes, you have to get to those answers before you fall head over heels, before all the hormones and the stuff gets raging. You need to know if you're the right fit, but weave it in.
Sade Curry [00:39:15]:
Yes. Crazy.
Erica Bennett [00:39:17]:
So, I think the last thing that I would love to leave our listeners with, because there has been so much great stuff already, but is around the subconscious fear that weaves us into maybe accepting somebody who isn't the right fit or makes us try and hold on to chase somebody, hold on to somebody that maybe isn't a right fit. And I think a lot of times, we don't even know we're doing it. You know, we know a little bit, like, hey, we don't want to start over. And we know we're kind oy maybe they weren't the right fit, and we weren't super happy. Right. But we do this thing where we're almost afraid to move forward or afraid to, like, let go of something.
Sade Curry [00:39:56]:
Yeah, no, that's. That fear is huge. I'm glad you brought that up. It's a big one. For some people. What I hear the most is I'm afraid of ending up with the wrong person. Or I'm afraid I won't find someone who will …. or I'm afraid I won't find someone I can trust with my kids. I'm afraid I won't find someone or whatever the thing is.
Sade Curry [00:40:15]:
Because of that, they pull back, or if they are settling like they've met someone, he's not really the right one, but they're like, I won't find anything better. Better being all the things that they want, that they're not experiencing in that relationship. I think, as humans, we just have those fears anyway. Our brains tend to latch onto what we can see, and we have a hard time imagining that something we're not seeing actually exists in the world that's one of the biggest problems with dating is that you really think only what you've seen and experienced exists. Your brain constantly fights you on that. What I tell my clients to do is to make a list of all those fears. Okay. I'm afraid I won't find a guy who will love my kids.
Sade Curry [00:40:52]:
I'm afraid all of it. All the things you think you won't find within the realistic things. Right. When are we just talking about real things that you need and then turn them into requirements? Because often the partner list didn't list those things. The partner list was six foot two, full head of hair, even though he's 60. Like, all the things are usually what we have on our list, but the deeper things, we forget to put them on our list. I have my clients; I would say write all the fears out. Now we're going to move them from the fear column to the requirement column.
Sade Curry [00:41:25]:
One, he needs to love my kids. Two, he needs to have a sense of adventure and be willing to travel like I am. Three, he will support my career. All the things that you're afraid he won't find. And then there's one more column. How will I know? Because I find a lot of women will go by what the man says, oh, I'm ready to be a stepdad. They're like, check.
Erica Bennett [00:41:45]:
That was going to be my next thing is like, hey, great, glad he said it. But what do you need to see him do? Or what do you need to feel to know that, yes, he does love and respect your kids? Because saying, like, oh, yeah, I'm totally open to dating somebody who has kids is different than actually choosing to show up. And it's different in choosing to show up and be like a boyfriend or being a possible stepdad.
Sade Curry [00:42:11]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:42:11]:
Because that's a different commitment.
Sade Curry [00:42:13]:
Yeah, the boyfriend is happy to go with you with the kids to the zoo.
Erica Bennett [00:42:16]:
Yeah.
Sade Curry [00:42:16]:
But a partner needs to be willing to wake up at 02:00 a.m. When the kid is puking. Yeah. Two different situations.
Erica Bennett [00:42:23]:
Right. Are they going to step into, like, what I've observed is, are they going to step into the role that your child is looking for in that missing adult as well? So, you know, and my son has a relationship with his dad, so he's in the picture. But there are pieces that I can see my son is missing in the relationship with his dad, and I can't fulfill them. I'm watching what he does, trying to get them met through the partner. And how is the partner responding to that? Is he stepping into it? Is he, like, overwhelmed by it? Like, that's kind of the role, you know?
Sade Curry [00:42:59]:
Yeah, same with me. My kids were teenagers at this time, and I was like, has to be good with young people. They're sassy. They do whatever they want. They're opinionated.
Erica Bennett [00:43:10]:
Right.
Sade Curry [00:43:11]:
Gotta be good. I didn't want someone who was gonna tolerate my kids. I wanted someone who was actually good with young people who understood them and could be with them in an emotionally safe way. I didn't need someone who was gonna roll up their elbows because they were. They could take care of themselves, but someone who could mirror to them that they were worthy and lovable versus someone who was just gonna be around in the house tolerating, you know, their presence.
Erica Bennett [00:43:34]:
I love that. I was having a conversation this morning, actually, on that, and we're talking about, you know, is your partner engaging with your kids? And these are, again, adult kids, college age kids. Are they taking the initiative to try and learn who they are?
Sade Curry [00:43:49]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:43:50]:
Not just saying hello. Not just polite small talk when you're in a function, but are they showing any initiative to be like, this is a cool human I want to get to know, because this human matters to you.
Sade Curry [00:44:02]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:44:02]:
And I get that it's harder when they're older because now they're formed. Right. They don't have to choose to love you, but that is the job. Like, do you want to tolerate them, or are you actually curious to get to know who these other people are that your partner loves so much?
Sade Curry [00:44:19]:
Yeah. And so those requirements go a little deeper than just the typical partner list that we tend to carry.
Erica Bennett [00:44:26]:
They do. I love that. You guys have a lot of lists you need to go off and make. You need to make your normal partner list of the physical attributes? Right. And then what's the personality attributes that we need? Okay. But now you need to write a fear list of, like, what are you really afraid of? And then flip them into great.
Erica Bennett [00:44:46]:
What are you looking for? And I think let's put one more in there. I would have you journal out why you think you won't find somebody.
Sade Curry [00:44:53]:
Yeah.
Erica Bennett [00:44:53]:
After you've made your list of. This is all the stuff that I want. This would, like, I want somebody who, you know, loves to travel, and. And I learned. I wanted somebody who loves to travel, but I forgot to put travel to the mountains, so mine loves to travel to the ocean, and I love to travel to the mountains. So just you guys learn clarity, specific, but, you know, make your list and then really sit down and face the fear of why you think that person doesn't exist. Why do you think you're not worthy to have it? Why aren't you going to find this person? What's really in the way? And then, you know, I always love to question, like, is that true? After you wrote out all those fears? Is that true? Like, they exist. I know you've seen them.
Sade Curry [00:45:33]:
They're out there. You know some. You know, they might be married or somewhere else, but, you know, there are people on the planes every day.
Erica Bennett [00:45:40]:
They are there. They're absolutely there. Well, thank you, Sade, for joining us today. You guys check out her podcast. It's called Dating after Divorce. Another great show for you guys to tune in and listen to. I had an amazing time chatting with you. I look forward to having you on again, and I look forward to being on your podcast.
Erica Bennett [00:45:58]:
I will talk to you soon. Until next week, you guys. Give yourself some grace. Take some time to define that list and have fun. Have fun while you're doing it, the moment dating or swiping or any of this stuff becomes work, you need to put it aside and put it aside until it naturally becomes something that would be delightful to explore. When it's work, it's not going to work out for you when you approach it like work. So have fun and we'll talk to you guys next week. And that's it.
Erica Bennett [00:46:32]:
Another great episode of the Crazy Ex Wives Club, a podcast for women learning how to heal from their divorce. Tune in next week for more advice and tips to help you figure out life after divorce. And until then, give yourself grace. Do the best you can and know that this is all part of the process.
