S4, EP1: Trusting Yourself: First Steps to Healing After Divorce with Tracy Malone
Apr 10, 2024
In this Season 4 premiere of "The Crazy Ex-Wives Club," host Erica Bennett and guest Tracy Malone delve into the complexities of trust post-divorce.
Addressing the delicate balance of self-trust and vulnerability, the episode provides invaluable advice on recognizing red flags, setting firm boundaries, and the significance of actions over words.
Listeners are invited to join the conversation on navigating new relationships with wisdom and confidence. Tracy's insights and Erica's poignant questions equip anyone recovering from a past betrayal with the tools to build trust cautiously but optimistically.
Tune in for engaging anecdotes, practical strategies, and a chance to download a trust-processing journal, all aiming to guide you through the intricacies of trust and dating. Don't miss this transformative discussion crafted to support and uplift you on your journey to finding fulfilling partnerships.
Learn More About This Week’s Guest: Tracy Malone
Tracy Malone Author, Speaker, Educator, and International narcissistic abuse and divorce coach. She is a surTHRIVER of abuse herself and the founder of NarcissistAbuseSupport.com and global resource that reaches millions of survivors. Tracy wrote her Bestselling book – DIVORCING A NARCISSIST: You Can’t Make This Shit Up! as well as 32 healing journals.
https://narcissistabusesupport.com/
Grab Tracy's free gift HERE and download your journal on How to Trust Again
Trusting Yourself: First Steps to Healing After Divorce FULL TRANSCRIPTS
Erica Bennett [00:00:00]:
You guys, it is season four. We are ready to kick off season four. And I am so excited to be back with you guys. Weekly episodes, really helping you navigate this healing journey. But, oh, my God, has this season been in the works and it is so amazing. You guys have been looking for dating advice. You've been asking, you know, how do I get out there? How do I find this again? This season is all about that. We're going to take you on a journey.
Erica Bennett [00:00:26]:
We're going to guide you through how to get ready for dating, how to get out there and date, how to figure out who the heck you are and really support you in moving forward. And today, we have our first guest. Today is all about the most important step. Before you can even open an app, you guys, before, actually, before you can even contemplate dating, our guest is going to talk about what you need to do. So let's get started. Welcome to The Crazy Ex-Wives Club, a podcast dedicated to helping women navigate the emotional journey that is divorced. I'm your host, Erica. And if you're trying to figure out life after the big d, welcome to the club.
Erica Bennett [00:01:04]:
Whether you're contemplating divorce or dealing with the aftermath or any of the many phases in between, the club has got you covered. Each week, you'll hear stories from women who have been in your shoes. This isn't about spilling tea and divorce details. This is about giving you the tools to take control of your own healing journey. Listen in weekly for advice, tips, and tools to help you move through each step of the process. Hey, guys. It's another episode of The Crazy Ex-Wives Club. I'm your host, Erica, and today I have Tracy Malone with me.
Erica Bennett [00:01:37]:
Now, Tracy coaches in all directions, you guys, when it comes to learning how to heal from traumatic experiences, dealing with narcissistic behaviors or exes, learning how to heal and move forward, learning how to co-parent. I mean, this woman has launched the tools. I had the opportunity to meet Tracy and see her speak and just fell in love with what she was saying. I messaged right away, and of course, Tracy showed up and sent me a picture of a coffee mug in her desk that literally said she, too, was part of the crazy, crazy club. I knew we had to have her on. I am so excited to have Tracy on today. So welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Tracy Malone [00:02:18]:
Thank you so much for having me, Erica. I am so honored to be here to help your people go, what do I do next?
Erica Bennett [00:02:24]:
Right? And that was a fun part, you know, when we first met, and we're like, okay, what's the topic? Because one of the things that we have together is, we just, we can help people in all different directions. It's really hard to pick one specialty. And now how many different journals do you have?
Tracy Malone [00:02:39]:
32.
Erica Bennett [00:02:40]:
Yes, 32, you guys, 32 healing journals to help you out on different topics. And we got to pick one. And I am so excited. This is a topic we have not really covered in depth in any of the seasons yet. We're going to talk about trust. I mean, how do you trust again? You know, your heart's been broken. It's the biggest pain you've ever experienced. Where do you start? We're going to learn from the expert here.
Erica Bennett [00:03:06]:
What would you say is the number one thing for somebody who's trying to learn how to trust again?
Tracy Malone [00:03:12]:
There's no easy formula in going, hey, just do this, and you can trust them. Right. It is really analyzing what your trust patterns are because most people don't do that. Well, I teach a class in trust, and when I tell everybody in the class, I'm like, I just shook their hand and said, hi, nice to meet you. I'm Tracy. And they had my trust. I never had a bar to examine to think about when they did untrustworthy things. I said to myself, oh, I'm so sad.
Tracy Malone [00:03:41]:
Well, how could they do that? You know, we become the victim of things, but we don't go ‘I’m not tolerating that’. It takes a lot to understand how to trust again, but it really starts with trusting yourself. And in my narcissist abuse world, that means that you have to know how to spot someone and what you're looking for. But then you have to have an outline, and you have to follow through with designing, looking what you have done in the past that didn't work so well because all my clients are like, I'll never trust again. That's it. I'm over.
Tracy Malone [00:04:15]:
And they've got this giant I can't trust again umbrella. But there's not truth in that. That's just because of the hurt and the woundedness. It takes us back to, let's unravel that and let's give us a plan. This is a trustworthy person, and these align with my core values. If someone does something that doesn't align with it, you have to trust yourself that you will not stay. How long will you tolerate it? Because we all stayed when there were little things that were like, that's weird. Oh, that's weird.
Tracy Malone [00:04:44]:
We have to go. I trust myself, and I don't want this. And then we can leave and save and protect ourselves. You're going to meet untrustworthy people?
Erica Bennett [00:04:52]:
Yeah. I think that's like, the really hard part. You know, my, my trust profile is that I trust too much and then I try and take it back and that it's still hard for me. Like, I meet somebody and if we connect and all of a sudden, I'm sharing all the details, right. I'm giving them a front seat to things that they haven't earned the right to be there yet. And it doesn't mean they're a bad person, but it just means my thing is like, it's almost like a trust dump.
Erica Bennett [00:05:18]:
And then, you know, people are human. They disappoint me and what happens, and I rear back, and it was hard for me. Even when really hurt, I was like, I'm never going to trust again. But that pattern of being so desperate that somebody else is going to actually hold the trust and show up for me meant that I continued to repeat it, I continued to extend it and hope that this person was going to stay or going to last.
Tracy Malone [00:05:40]:
Yeah. It's a hard thing because we're unbuilding, like, patterns, and we might not even know their patterns until we do the work to go, oh, yeah. And again, the trust policy is sort of like, you know what? They violated this three times. How many times am I going to tolerate this? But if you don't think about what you want and what you need in a person, it's bad because trust takes years to build. Like, again, hi, nice to meet you. Does not give them real trust. Right. It takes seconds to break and forever to repair.
Tracy Malone [00:06:12]:
Building it from that perspective is really going to change people's lives.
Erica Bennett [00:06:17]:
Yeah. And I mean, we're human. We all make mistakes, even for people that I, you know, deeply love. Do I sometimes make mistakes? Yeah. Like, it just happens. And a little bit of that trust gets eroded and then you do the work to build the trust back.
Tracy Malone [00:06:31]:
In a situation like that, it's stepping up. Instead of being hurt and wounded that they broke your trust, it's going, you know what? I'd like to talk to you about that. This is where I stand and hearing their response to it, instead of like, I didn't do that, meaning I don't need you in my life. I need someone that's going to have those conversations because we all mess up. I pride myself on messing up at least once a day, and then I don't disappoint myself. You know, if I have a good day, I'm like weee, I didn't have any, but I will do things wrong. I'm human and we all are. And we're also built on a foundation of all the recordings in our head.
Tracy Malone [00:07:08]:
Untangling them from someone's behavior and understanding what you would do and if they crossed a boundary like that is going to make somebody's life a different life because we didn't do it that way before.
Erica Bennett [00:07:21]:
Right. And that is definitely a topic we'll get into because it was really hard for me to learn how to trust again because my whole system wanted to just go haywire the moment there was risk involved. But before we get to that part, looking at trust, because we're kind of talking about trusting other people, you got to learn how to trust yourself. And that is always the first step in rebuilding, in healing. How do you figure out how to trust yourself? What does it mean to trust yourself?
Tracy Malone [00:07:49]:
I would imagine it means different things for everybody. But trusting yourself that, you know, if what red flags are. You know that this isn't appropriate behaviors, but then trusting yourself to say, I'm sorry, but this isn't working out, even though it looks good on paper, because that's the thing. Well, they have all of these wonderful, like, 90 wonderful qualities, and these ten are just bothersome. If they won't talk to you about it and they're not willing to work with it, then you have a problem. The 90% does not mean I stay with you and keep trying harder because often as we find out, abusive people will lie and that 90% is fake. You're sitting there holding on to the brass ring and it's, it's not even a genuine ring. Knowing inside yourself that you will not tolerate any bad behavior and I'm going to be watching you is the other part to know, did they do something that was untrustworthy? Will they communicate to me about it? Does it feel safe? And then we move on from there.
Erica Bennett [00:08:50]:
Though I love what you said in that trusting yourself is asking do you trust that you are going to do a new behavior, that you're going to make a change? And I think that's big. Because we think that trusting yourself means like, oh, yeah, do I believe myself? Oh, yeah, am I listening to my internal guidance? Yeah, that's hearing yourself. But do I trust that if I know that it doesn't align with my heart and it doesn't align with my values, that I'm going to make a different decision? Am I going to walk? Am I going to say no? Am I going to break up with the person? Right? Am I going to make the pivot that's needed? And I know for me, that was the thing, you know, I had to have a little heart moment. I've talked about this, like a little heart healing moment with my inner child, that the true root of where my pain came from was that I stopped trusting that I was going to do the thing that my inner guidance told me to do.
Tracy Malone [00:09:42]:
And I think if you think about it, you need courage. Do you trust yourself that you will be able to pull on that courage, be brave and do what is needed to be done? Because having those awkward conversations isn't easy. If we are afraid of that, you're not ready to date. If you have been still in trauma, you're still ruminating, you aren't ready. If you haven't healed and done so much work to really build up your self-confidence to understand, like you said, your inner child voice, because sometimes we hear it and if you've never done inner child work, the voice is screaming, but you're not listening because you didn't know that was something I got to listen to. It's your intuition.
Tracy Malone [00:10:22]:
Lots of parts for people to grow before they throw out the I'm going to go date again card.
Erica Bennett [00:10:30]:
I think it is those pieces. The times I think about, why didn't I do something different? You know, I heard the voice. I knew that things weren't sitting right. Kind of your point of like gradually, then suddenly, right. There were little cracks in the foundation of my marriage. There were little problems that were coming up. He said he was going to come home at midnight.
Erica Bennett [00:10:47]:
He always rolled in at two to three. This became consistent. But he was really good at apologizing. He was really good at doing whatever he wanted and knowing that he could come back and fix it on the back end. Because there was, you know, we loved each other, right? Oh, we were married. He could work his way around it. And all it did was every single time, did I like, okay, I would I forgive him? Yes. And every time the resentment built. I was even more angry when he continued to do the things, when he didn't show up.
Erica Bennett [00:11:17]:
Right, when his actions didn't align with his words. At the end of the day, I'm the one that continued to stay.
Tracy Malone [00:11:23]:
Right. And if you look at what you just described there, he apologized, he made amends, made fail better. But the reality is that is our bad. I did it too. When you said he showed up late, I remember, like cooking dinners and working for 3 hours and then he would show up 4 hours later and go, yeah, I'm not really that hungry. And I was hurt. And then I get a kiss. Maybe the next day I get a flower. Really sorry.
Tracy Malone [00:11:48]:
But an apology is a change in behavior. If they do it once and apologize and never, do it again, that's someone you can trust. If it is someone who is repeatedly next week, next week, another time, another time. We can't continue to be bought by kindness or a dozen roses. That's their excuse card. I want someone to give me roses because it's Thursday, not because they screwed up again. You know, fool me once, fool me twice, I'm not going to allow that any longer. So those are the kind of trust in self to say, I don't care how good you look on paper or how cute your ass is.
Tracy Malone [00:12:27]:
No, it's not okay that you do these things and if they are unresponsive to your speaking up about it and go, I never did that. You're so picky. Or they turn it on you, off with your head. You have to know, again, get out while you can.
Erica Bennett [00:12:44]:
Yeah. And it's hard to find that courage. But that is the thing, you guys, you can't, you know, look back at the boundary episode. Boundaries aren't demanding somebody else has to change. You are stating, this is how I want to be treated. And if they don't do it, you leave. Not that you have to make the choice. And with that comes this, you know, increasing level of trust.
Erica Bennett [00:13:06]:
Trust in yourself that you can do hard things, that you can heal, that you can move forward, that you can restart. But it also comes with a learning of how to trust somebody else, right? Because they are going to make mistakes and you are going to freak out and be like, oh, this must be the wrong person. I did it again. I picked wrong again. This person isn't trustworthy and understanding how you navigate those conversations. Because those are different too, when you're starting to date.
Tracy Malone [00:13:35]:
If you think about the things it. My friends are all on dating apps, so they're like, I want a good communicator. And I want. And they've got this like a laundry list of things that this is who I'm looking for. But I said to my friends, I'm like, well, what would that communicative behavior look like? And they're like, well, I want to be able to have nice discussions and be able to talk. I'm like, no. It is so much more. It is them being able to effectively communicate their needs without hurting you and being honest about it.
Tracy Malone [00:14:05]:
It's about them working together to solve a problem and not just putting a band aid on it. Communicative is so much more than just that they can have a nice conversation. It's digging in and going, are we able to work together?
Erica Bennett [00:14:25]:
Hey there, it's Erica, your guide at The Crazy Ex-Wives Club. I want to take a moment to express how much your feedback means to us. Your ratings, your reviews, they are like fuel for our journey together. They not only brighten our day, but they help other women find the support and the guidance they need. Leaving a rating in review is super easy, and it makes a world of difference. If you're listening on Spotify, simply scroll down to the bottom of the podcast page and then tap on rate. If you're tuning in on iTunes, head over to the podcast page, scroll down, and click on write a review. It only takes a minute, but it could help someone else find this podcast and change their life.
Erica Bennett [00:15:04]:
Your voice matters. Your feedback helps us grow. Take a moment to share your thoughts and experiences. Together, we can help spread the word to support even more women. Thank you for being a part of this journey. Let's continue to support each other and make a difference one review at a time. Trust and communication, it's like the lock and the key, right? They have to go hand in hand because you trust somebody, and then they disappoint you. Okay, did you clarify what your needs were? Did you clarify what your expectation was? Somebody can't just guess how they should act around you unless you've been clear enough in your communication of how you want to be treated.
Erica Bennett [00:15:43]:
I think a lot of times trust gets broken. Or we say we don't trust somebody, but it again comes back to, did we do the work to clarify what our need was and what our expectation was? And even I'll challenge my own self and I'll be like, oh, you're feeling resentful. You're not trusting this person's going to show up. Why is that? Oh, well, I have an expectation that this is how it works in a relationship, but I've not asked if he has the same expectation.
Tracy Malone [00:16:10]:
Exactly. And that's such an important part because we forget that. Right? And again, when we go back to other things, people's wish list is like healthy living. I want you to exercise and go to the gym. And, you know, at my age, that's a good thing because otherwise they could be on a walker next week. But it's not about healthy living that they go to the gym and anything like that. It's back to do they stay present and engaged? Do they remember that you had a really big meeting at work class at night, and did they ask and check in about it, or if you tried to talk it, did they shut you down? They have to be actively involved in your life and not forget things. And I know that's asking a lot, but that's what I expect if I'm going to remember you had an important meeting. Don't just talk about that.
Tracy Malone [00:16:55]:
Let's make sure I'm part of the conversation and somebody is caring about my day.
Erica Bennett [00:17:00]:
Yeah, exactly. That's the give and take of relationships. But again, of course, you guys, it starts with trusting yourself. Steps to trust. Is there like a set way? I would say, you know, I've already confessed my trust is like a trust dump and then a sift and sort to try and see if any of it sticks and forms a foundation. So not always the best. I'm working on that. I'm moving through that.
Erica Bennett [00:17:23]:
But is there a set pattern that somebody sets steps they can take that set them up for success?
Tracy Malone [00:17:28]:
Well, journaling about it, thinking about the person that you're on there, not letting things slip by, because so often they're just little weird instances and we forget, or do we get the flowers or they're really sorry. They showed up at two in the morning and you're like, oh, okay, he loves me. It's all good, right? It's setting those expectations and really defining. That's what my trust processing journal is for. It is to sit there and go, here's all of the things. And there's like nine pages of lists going, how do they fit into this category. You pick what is most important to you and say, yeah, when they do that, that really bothers me. And then if I speak to them and they aren't hearing me and they do it again, how many chances am I going to give them, right? Everyone's going to have a different trust policy.
Tracy Malone [00:18:17]:
But if, you know, these are the rules that you want to aim for, boy, that changes everything. And so just being able to do it, but documenting as you're processing trust-ability, because I call things trust makers and trust breakers, what does someone have to do? And it's not like I came home late. It’s how did Erica feel when you came home late because I felt betrayed. I felt let down. I felt confused. I felt these things. Those feelings are directly related to why you don't trust them. If they make you, it doesn't matter what the thing is.
Tracy Malone [00:18:54]:
Coming home late is one example of feeling that way. But what other things make you feel that way that are not acceptable, that perhaps the person you're with does?
Erica Bennett [00:19:06]:
Yeah, I love that. And I think it's always a balance of owning, you know, what is it really. You know, I love the trust makers and the trust breakers. I also talk about non-negotiables, and now you shouldn't have a ton of non-negotiables, but you should have a solid grouping of, like, hey, this is non-negotiable. And how I want to be treated, that relates to your trust. Right. And when we look at those things, the things that fall outside of the non-negotiables, the gray area, the, like. I like to call them yellow flags.
Erica Bennett [00:19:33]:
Okay? They're not really a red flag. It's a yellow flag. I'm like, hey, this is a cautionary. And then asking myself, is this something that I want to deal with, or I can deal with, or is this something that I don't want to deal with? So being able to decide if I'm leaving. Right. Hey, this person really likes to fish. I don't know. I’ll make one up.
Erica Bennett [00:19:53]:
But fishing was very popular in the dating apps. When I was on the app, oh, my God. Every other profile was all fish pictures, and it's like, huh, that's probably a yellow flag. I don't fish. I don't like to fish. I don't really want to cook that much fish. Is that something that I want to have in my life, or is that something that I want to set aside? Right, and then sticking to what your list is exactly.
Tracy Malone [00:20:18]:
I had a friend here this weekend, and she's in a new relationship, and when she first met him, she's like, nope, deal breaker. He showed up in preppy clothes. I wanted to barf. It's not my style. I just can't do it. No, no, no. And they've been together for seven years, right? And she was like, deal makers are okay, I can kind of squeeze on the clothing, but.
Tracy Malone [00:20:40]:
And again, it might be your initial gut is like, ugh. I don't like what it is, but to move farther and go. But the important things are there. The good, the this, the that. That outweighs the way he treats me, the way I feel when I'm with him. Is better than I felt with anyone else. I don't care what he's wearing, because you get to that point where the rest of it is a big green flag.
Tracy Malone [00:21:02]:
Yes, yes, yes. You are evaluating. Like you were saying, your drop dead no goes, right? And these are the trust breakers. If you do this, I'm going to feel like I can't trust you. And, you know, can we communicate it? You'll have sort of a building of your own. What you want and what your needs are and what your core values are. A lot of people don't even think about their core values.
Tracy Malone [00:21:28]:
I'm like, all about integrity, honesty. My ex-husband used to steal computers from his job. And I'm talking, when he left, there were 14 brand new computers, and I would go, why are you stealing these computers? This is not integrity. You know, well, I have so many, and I can. And I would never tolerate anyone like that again because what that shows are exactly what I saw in the end of our relationship. He was going to do what he wanted, and he didn't care what rules he broke. It has a lot more meaning than he had this integrity of stealing things and pretend and being a big executive.
Tracy Malone [00:22:01]:
It wasn't like he was some schlump. He was up there, and he was still stealing. That should have told me. That is not a safe person, because if they have no integrity there, they're going to have no integrity when the war of divorce comes or when you break up. Don't just look at it in that situation. In that example, we're going, okay, so we sold computer, didn't hurt anyone. That's his problem. Right.
Tracy Malone [00:22:22]:
But it shows what kind of person he's going to be for the future. It's not just that action. It's putting that label on of non-integrities. I don't trust him. And holding that to go, I don't want someone who steals computers. I mean, that's like, I should have run so far, but I was like, well, we love each other, and we're married now, and we just take that, and we gobble it up, and then we end up with someone who has absolutely no integrity and will do the same bad stuff to you.
Erica Bennett [00:22:50]:
Yeah. Because that's the thing. When you see somebody who does something to somebody else that you don't approve of, they absolutely have the capability to do it to you as well. They're just choosing not to right now. Right.
Tracy Malone [00:23:02]:
It's the same thing with gossiping. Right. That's a big one. Is. Is the secret fault, as Brene Brown says? Right. Is do they keep secrets, not only yours, but others? Are they gossipers? Because they're going to turn that. It's just showing you this is who they are. You're not the target at the moment.
Tracy Malone [00:23:19]:
But if they're always talking bad about their family or about their friends or coworkers, there's something wrong here. You'll just be on the other side of that one day. Do you want someone that does that? Again, evaluating your needs and your wants and your core values is key.
Erica Bennett [00:23:35]:
Yeah. Because without that, you can't figure out what's the behavior you need to see from somebody. How do you want to feel? What do you want to see them do? Now you have a roadmap. Now you have the checks and balances to understand. Oh, this happened five times last week. This is getting to be a problem. I'm seeing a pattern. I'm a big fan of patterns.
Erica Bennett [00:23:54]:
Right. Everybody makes mistakes. But it's when there is a pattern, and it continues to show up and it continues to happen, and it continues to escalate that now it's harder to trust somebody because they haven't proven to you that they're going to do it. But, you know, have you proven to yourself you can do it, too?
Tracy Malone [00:24:09]:
Right? And you were talking about boundaries earlier, learning that you can recognize when a boundary has to be set. The example that you just gave kind of triggered me to go, he did it over and over and over again. And we might have said something, you know, that bothers me or upset. But setting an absolute boundary means we have to recognize that what they're doing is not okay. Therefore, I need to set a boundary. And it's almost like a test. It's a test to see if I set this boundary. Like in your example where he kept coming home till two in the morning.
Tracy Malone [00:24:44]:
I said it three times, and he keeps doing what he wants. He's not going to be a boundary listener. And therefore, this is just the tip of the iceberg. The rest is all under the water. We're going to see it later.
Erica Bennett [00:24:55]:
Yeah. And I think that's the hard part. The earlier you can catch it, the better. If you can prevent it in the beginning because when it gets that big, like in our instance, you know, we already had one kid. We were trying for a second kid. Was I really ready to say, this is the thing that's going to break it, or can I just hold on a little bit longer? Because maybe this will even out. Maybe he'll stop doing this because there's all these other, you know, the scales, right? There were all these things already in motion on one side that I was building, you know, adding my little gold coins to the house and the dogs and the kids and the whatever.
Erica Bennett [00:25:28]:
Could I continue to just deal with what I was seeing on the other side? And I think that was a big lesson I took forward, like, looking at the next relationships, how did I want to be treated? And I was not perfect at walking away when I should have walked away for the first few relationships. And, you know, I got faster. I did get faster, but it still was a really hard thing to do. Was I able to walk away from what I had hoped was a future possibility, to really look at what the reality was and how this person was treating me?
Tracy Malone [00:26:02]:
Yeah, absolutely. When we're talking about a boundary, I use this example a lot because it's trusting yourself to know. I got a plan, and I tell people on the first date you've been chatting and texting and you're finally going to meet them. That's the best day to set the first boundary and see if they listen and to have them at the bar and they go, you know, I'm so excited to finally meet you, but I just realized I only have about 2 hours, so let's make it the best time. And then as the 2 hours comes up, you go, you know, I've got to leave in about 15 minutes. And they go, oh, come on, why can't you just have another drink? We could have it fast. I'm having so much fun. Why can't you just break your boundary? Right? If we are in that situation and they're trying to talk us out of a boundary, date two should not happen because they're not listening.
Tracy Malone [00:26:51]:
Right. I understand that. We've had a great time. Thank you so much. But, you know, I'm going to stick with what I've got planned and watch their reaction. If they get upset or they pressure you or do they say, you're right, I'm so happy you have something to do. Can we plan for next Saturday? That's what you want. You can test them right from date one and dribble this stuff in through the beginning of it without it being a huge thing, just being a simple thing of where do you want to go to dinner? They ask you and you go, oh, I want to italian, you know what? Let's go here instead.
Tracy Malone [00:27:25]:
We'll do yours next time. And then the next time come in, they don't honor yours again. You've texted and why did they ask you if they don't want to take you there. Right. It's strange, but you have opportunities, and those are the things you trust yourself about.
Erica Bennett [00:27:39]:
Yeah. You made an expectation. You, I want Italian. They didn't do it. That's like taking a couple of coins out of the trust pile. Okay. And the next round comes along. Each time, it takes a couple coins out, each time, it just gradually then suddenly slips away.
Erica Bennett [00:27:53]:
I think the other thing that it makes me think of is knowing what works for you, especially when you first start dating, and there's all this pressure that you need to be okay with casual dating, and you need to be okay with casual sex, and you need to be fine. If somebody wants to date multiple people. If you're not fine with that, that's okay. You don't have to live in those standards. And that took some exploring and learning how to trust what works for me. You know, I could keep trying to just say, oh, yeah, we can just casually date. And then I was like, I literally can't. I can't for my history and from who I am, and I'm not m eaning we're jumping into something right away, but I don't have a ton of time to be, like, dating a bunch of multiple people in one week.
Erica Bennett [00:28:34]:
It's not my style. If this goes anywhere, that's not my style for you to be doing either. Like, you can set your own expectations and what you want in a partner. And that, again, right from the get-go, starts to build that trust. Are they willing to show up in the way with the same expectations that you have, or are they running their own show?
Tracy Malone [00:28:58]:
And keeping track of it? Like we said, you know, it's like, okay, we've been on this date, and it went really well, but this was a little weird. And, you know, everyone who has been abused in my world wishes they had kept notes along the way because they're like. Or they find, you know, ten years of journals and go, wow, the signs were here. I didn't even look at them. Right. It's knowing those signs, and that's how you'll gain trust in yourself, is to say, I'm going to tolerate this. I don't want that. I don't want someone who's going around to five dates.
Tracy Malone [00:29:28]:
If you can't, like, see me for three dates without fitting anyone else in for a month, then you're not the guy. You're not the one for me. Knowing that is how you trust yourself. Kudos to you for going, that's not what I want to do. I don't want someone else out doing that either. We have to align. This is the most important value to me. And if you can give me three dates, and then you can go and sleep around all day long if you want to, but I want to know that you're willing to work with me if I'm worth it.
Erica Bennett [00:29:58]:
100%. Right? Like, I don't know. I just didn't have that much time. And, like, why? You know, like, you start talking to somebody and I'm like, hey, you're fun to talk to. I like talking to you. I want to build more into this. Right? It is that craving for trust. It is that craving that they're going to keep showing up that you're looking for.
Erica Bennett [00:30:15]:
So why the heck would I just be, like, sprinkling it around everywhere if the intention is, we're here to see if this is going to work out. Okay, great. Then let's, like, follow it through. We're not, like, boyfriend and girlfriend after the first date. We're not getting married right away, but we're just saying, like, I liked this enough to say, I don't need to go explore other things till I see where this goes. After two dates, three dates, you know, like, hey, this is actually going well. Okay, let's see what happens.
Tracy Malone [00:30:44]:
And you just brought up something that kind of hit me, and I wrote it down. I was like, you mentioned in the beginning how you used to share too much of your story. And I think that's something that we have to trust ourselves to know when to share different parts of our story. And I call it story barfing, where you just go on the date. You're like, yeah, I was abused. My ex was crazy, you know? And I say to people, what's the difference between your crazy ex and their crazy ex? If they sit at a table again, I'm from the narc lens. I'm like, if they go, oh, yeah, my wife was crazy, too. And they're agreeing with you.
Tracy Malone [00:31:19]:
You're like, oh, we have this commonality. Yay. That's what got me with my last narcissist, was the commonality that we had both been with them. I should have never told him that. I should have never story barfed that part of it because I gave him the script to abuse me. When we can create a story and go, this is who I am, and this is what I want to talk about, and I'm not going until day three to introduced that I had a crazy ex. Right.
Tracy Malone [00:31:47]:
The difference between your crazy ex and their crazy ex is that if you ask them, oh, that must have been so hard. You had a crazy ex. How did you deal with that? And if they come off and they go, what did you learn from that? I learned that she's crazy. And you know what? That is a really bad sign, because if someone asked you about your crazy ex, you'd be like, I learned I didn't have good boundaries. I learned I trusted too easily. I learned I got to do this. I might have a little codependency people pleaser in me. I learned I had to fix these wounds.
Tracy Malone [00:32:19]:
That's what you're looking for. If they say they have a crazy ex because we're doing the work, we're learning and we're healing and we're growing. If they only have vengeance and hatred for them without, I learned I have something I've got to fix in me. Not a good match. So those are kind of the things I would help people with that I think are important.
Erica Bennett [00:32:40]:
One of the things that I had to look at, too, is at what level do they get to move deeper in my story? Right. Being able to identify what are the right conversations for, you know, dates one through three. What are the right conversations for dates four through ten? At what point have they earned a seat at your table to start to know the rest of the story? Instead of just like, thank God they swiped, and I swiped and thank God they found some time and asked me out. So now I'm just going to throw everything at them. And that's a lot for somebody else to take on as well. If you showed up and dumped everything on me, I'd probably be like, whoa, okay, this might be more than I need to handle. Finding those levels of what information can I trust you with while we're getting to know each other? And that, I don't know.
Erica Bennett [00:33:31]:
I don't even know what those guidelines would be. That'd probably be information that would be fine posting on social that you would share at a work conference, media or at a work event. You know, share with somebody you work with. It's like that level of detail of, yes, you're getting to know them, yes, you're trusting them with some more information. Yes, they're learning pieces about your life, but it's not the deepest pieces and.
Tracy Malone [00:33:52]:
It really shouldn't be. When you're going on a date, and you've had a crazy ex, you want to keep that to yourself for now, because, again, you will look like the crazy one. I went on only four dates in the last ten years, and I was too soon. And we're talking eight years ago. It was too soon, and I remember the looks in their eyes, and I thought I crafted a really, like, this is what I'm going to say. But then they would ask these questions, and they got more out of me than I wanted to, and I left going, oh, I said too much, and it's true. I never saw them again because I sounded like the crazy one, because I was like, and the divorce was this, and I don't think I wrote a book yet, but, you know, it was just sort of like I needed to craft something that made me feel safe.
Tracy Malone [00:34:39]:
And that's what I think when you're asking, what's the beginning? This is safety talk. This is not only our history, but I would always bring the conversation back to, you know what? I don't want to talk about the past. We'll talk about that at another time. Let's talk about what you like to do and change the subject to kind of wield it and almost control it so that that person doesn't ask you.
Tracy Malone [00:35:02]:
One person I'm thinking of that just kept diving and diving. He was a life coach, and he had the great questions, and, man, he got more out of me than I had already planned, and so I have to have a bigger wall. What would I say if they ask those questions? That's how you trust yourself. They ask me something I don't want to talk about. It's not on my approved. I want to talk to you on the one to three dates, then go, you know what? That's for later. Let's talk about this instead of Tracy story barfing and scaring the shit out of this man.
Erica Bennett [00:35:31]:
Right. Yeah. There's a certain amount of you having to come to terms with what that story is, so you're not telling it to get support. Right. A lot of times we tell a story or hash up an old story because we want people to align with us. We want people to tell us that we were right, that we were the one, like, oh, that was so terrible that happened to you. Yeah. And so being able to tell the story from, like, hey, it happened.
Erica Bennett [00:35:54]:
But I learned from it is a completely different place.
Tracy Malone [00:35:58]:
That's when we know we're ready to date again, is that we can have that pivot versus Tracy and the headlights and making those big mistakes on those dates. I pity those guys because, you know, I listened to them. On one of them, I listened to this man, and he had done something that was so lacking in integrity. And I was just like, what did you do? Oh, my God. You're trying to kick out your tenant. And, you know, like, oh, it was just. I'm entitled towards my house. No, you have a lease, dude.
Tracy Malone [00:36:30]:
Right. I just sat there, and I knew right then that his integrity, I just tested it when he talked about it. I asked the right questions that could give me the answer to, he doesn't have integrity. I got to go home now. Right. Finding a way to balance that is going to make yourself stronger going out there.
Erica Bennett [00:36:48]:
Yeah. And, you know, I would tell you guys, too, before we close this episode is one of the other things that was really, really hard, was once I did find a partnership, or once I was working through a partnership, learning how to understand when I could trust him. You know, like, I desperately knew I wanted to trust this partner, and I had done some testing, and I knew that it was safe, and I knew that it was at the point that I wanted to allow him in more. And before I had done that, one of the, like, ways that I really pulled back is that instead of, you know, in my marriage, I was dumping a lot of my emotions on my partner. And when I went into any sort of dating, I made sure I kept all of that. This is my own stuff, and I need to work through it on my side, and maybe this is my old trauma and my triggers, and I need to be able to handle it because I don't want my partner to have to jump through hoops. And it became difficult for me to understand when is the point that I trust somebody with it, and when is the point that I need to work on it? And I found it to be just really hard to even tell my partner that I wanted to tell him something was wrong.
Tracy Malone [00:37:59]:
Yeah. And that's doing the work. Right. You're getting to a point where you're guarding it, and now you're like, okay, now I want to share it. But before we have that, I want to share it part, because that's our heart talking. Our head has to know that we can trust them. That means we've shared a bunch of less important things along the way.
Tracy Malone [00:38:18]:
They reacted correctly. They had empathy for us, and we weren't there for therapy. You know, then the next level of, you know, again, however it comes out, this was others that happened to me. And see how they process that.
Erica Bennett [00:38:33]:
Yeah. And that, you guys, is, it's such a beautiful process, but not everybody could do it. So just because you're in, you know, I think of lots of relationships where two of them, specifically the first one, where I would try and be like, hey, I see you giving other people support. Like, I need this support. And the reaction was, I'm barely taking care of myself. I can't give support to you. I can't carry the weight of your emotions, too. Trying it out again, you know, building the relationship, building the commonalities, are they consistent on their actions? Are they showing up when they're going to show up? Are they clear in their communication? Oh, my gosh.
Erica Bennett [00:39:05]:
We built a steady foundation of what this relationship has. And now I'm going to show up with some of my most inner workings. And I'm going to tell you that right now I'm having some anxiety and I'm having a completely irrational thought that this might end because dovetailed to that is, I am fucking loving what we're doing right now. And it scares me to death to think that it could end because I'm so happy. Right. But that, that's a whole other level of trust that was really hard. And my first steps were just being like, I really want to tell you what's going on inside my mind. And I honestly can't find the words. I want to tell you.
Erica Bennett [00:39:43]:
And this is not safe ground for me right now because of my own stuff that I'm carrying.
Tracy Malone [00:39:50]:
Yeah, it's knowing yourself that well. And also, I think I believed people who told me they were trustworthy. I don't believe words anymore. I believe actions. And that's, again, if someone has to tell you, like, my ex and his family had a lot of money and they would tell people we're rich, and therefore, rich people don't actually tell you they're rich. Like, nor does a trustworthy person have to say I'm trustworthy. You could trust me. That might be true, but it's a weird thing.
Tracy Malone [00:40:21]:
Show me that you're trustworthy. Right. I'm not giving it to you because you simply said it. That's nice that you believe it. And I'd like to see that, you know, appear, and give me examples without believing the words because salt and sugar look the same. Right. We don't know what we're getting. We have to be able to analyze.
Tracy Malone [00:40:40]:
Oh, no, this one's bitter. And this one's sweet. And if there's a mixture like that, I only want the sweet. I know there'll be bad times, too, but this is what I need. And it's like what you said before about boundaries. This is what I need. And that's the way you'll know that you'll be able to pick the right person and trust them when you can trust yourself.
Erica Bennett [00:41:01]:
For you guys listening in, trust is a process. It's a test and learn, but it starts with you understanding what are my core values, my expectations, my wants, my desires? What's that behavior look like in somebody else? How do I know that I'm seeing it. And if I'm not seeing it, how long do I put up with it before I say that this isn't going to work for me?
Tracy Malone [00:41:26]:
No. Right. And I think when people are dating and going out there to date again, you have to be strong enough to accept rejection. This person might look great to you, but you're not the one for them. It's not a wound. If it is a wound that someone's going to reject you and it's going to hurt that much. You're not ready yet. You have to have very bulletproof sense of self. If it doesn't work and this is their choice, it's not bad about me.
Tracy Malone [00:41:53]:
Maybe they just. I'm not the one. Take that as a gift because they're honest and they're saying it to your face versus, you know, going behind your back or hurting you in another way.
Erica Bennett [00:42:05]:
Yeah. I definitely think the biggest attractor of trust was the fact that he's my then husband. Said one thing but continued on. Right. Even when the marriage was over, continued to tell me, I'm not talking to her, and she was moving in, and I'm like, why? Why continue to lie? I go, that is the thing that hurts more. Being honest, is it going to hurt?
Tracy Malone [00:42:26]:
Yes.
Erica Bennett [00:42:27]:
But not like, dishonesty does not like, betrayal of someone's trust in, like, hey, we're two humans, and we're showing up and doing the best we can. That's where my core value is. I have zero tolerance for lies. Like, white lies. His were white lies that started, and I was like, a white lie is a lie. It doesn't matter yet. And they just get bigger and bigger.
Erica Bennett [00:42:48]:
Tracy does have a gift for you guys to help you navigate this, because learning how to rebuild trust. Right. Takes time, it takes steps, and it just takes trying it. You're going to get it wrong sometimes, and then you're going to learn how to do it better. But, Tracy, tell us about the free download you have for listeners.
Tracy Malone [00:43:06]:
The free download is all of the words from my trust processing journal. My assistant was like, why didn't you just make a short list? Why are you giving them the whole damn book? I'm like, well, if they want the book, they can buy it for $7, but if they just have their own paper, that's what I'm giving you is these are the areas, and this is how you learn to trust. This is, you know, if you have that umbrella of ‘I'll never trust again.’ No, you probably trust your babysitter. You probably trust the cop. I wouldn't trust the cop. That was like pulling me over as much as I would trust him if I had got into an accident. You know what is conditional trust? I would trust my best friend with my car, but I wouldn't give them my kid unless I knew they knew my kid in there.
Tracy Malone [00:43:47]:
There's conditional trust knowing, and then that takes off the whole I can't trust again because I do trust my best friend and I do trust my family, whatever it is. Know where you are, and you'll learn all that in this little worksheet.
Erica Bennett [00:43:58]:
Yeah, I love that. I remember I used to teach character and competence, right? You trust somebody when either you know their character, you believe in, you know who they are, their personality, their values, or you trust them, you know, in the work setting, because they have competence, they can take care of your child and keep your child safe, right? When one of those is lacking, you can't have trust. Trust is built on the foundation of character and competence, and those two have to come together. Get your download.The link to the download is in the show notes. It's posted on thecrazyexwivesclub.com. If you go to episodes and find today's episodes, all of Tracy's contact information is in there so that you can look her up and give her a follow. Get that free download and start working on your trust. Thank you, Tracy, for joining us today, you guys, until next week, download your journal, do your behaviors, and we will talk to you soon.
Erica Bennett [00:44:56]:
And that's it. Another great episode of The Crazy Ex-Wives Club, a podcast for women learning how to heal from their divorce. Tune in next week for more advice and tips to help you figure out life after divorce. And until then, give yourself grace. Do the best you can and know that this is all part of the process.
