S2 EP9: Simplifying Divorce with Hello Divorce's Heather MacKenzie

In this insightful episode, host Erica Bennett welcomes Heather MacKenzie from the full-service divorce platform Hello Divorce.

Together, they delve into the complexities of the divorce process, emphasizing preparation, empowerment, and maintaining standards of living for all parties involved.

They share personal anecdotes, discuss the importance of education, emotional support, and self-reflection, and introduce tools like the Marital Settlement Agreement.

Heather provides tips on separating legal and emotional guidance, while listeners receive a special discount offer.

Tune in for an empowering discussion on navigating divorce with grace and strength. #DivorceSupport #HelloDivorce #Empowerment

Full Transcripts Below

 

To Learn More About This Week's Guest: Hello Divorce

⁠Hello Divorce⁠ is a full service divorce platform focused on reducing the stress and complication of divorce by making easy-to-access content.

Founded by an attorney who was sick of the broken family law system, ⁠Hello Divorce⁠ aims to to make divorce easy, kind, and affordable. The team is passionate about providing accurate, free, and helpful content to all.

⁠Hello Divorce⁠ offers the most comprehensive online collection of divorce knowledge and resources. Our trusted experts include coaches, therapists, financial experts, & more.

Learn more at ⁠https://hellodivorce.com/⁠

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Their Gift to You

Want to explore one of their most popular resources? Use the code below to get your⁠ Marital Settlement Agreement⁠today!

The ⁠Marital Settlement Agreement⁠ helps you build a contract between you and your spouse that details your divorce agreement.

Save $25 by using the code CRAZY25

 ⁠https://hellodivorce.com/marital-settlement-agreement 

 

Simplifying Divorce with Hello Divorce's Heather MacKenzie Full Transcripts

Erica Bennett [00:00:00]:

Hey, guys. We are back with another episode all about helping you maintain your energy. You know, one of the things that surprised me the most was how exhausted I truly was amidst the divorce process. And I knew I was tired, and I knew I was stressed out, but because layer by layer had just become a little bit more a little bit more normal, I didn't really realize the toll it was taking on me. So my guest today is gonna help us alleviate some of that exhaustion that comes with the normal process, along with helping us see that there are a lot of options to help us out. So let's get started.

Erica Bennett [00:01:18]:

Hey, guys. It's another episode of the Crazy Ex Wives Club. I am your host Erica, and today my guest is Heather Mackenzie from Hello Divorce. I don't know if you guys know the account. If you don't, you need to go right now. Hello, Divorce. It's also linked, obviously, in all of the details, but I came across your account, Heather, like, a year ago and just loved the content. I swore you were speaking directly my own words, exactly how I had felt.

Erica Bennett [00:01:46]:

I felt really seen, I felt really supported. And at that point, I actually knew nothing about what you guys actually did. I just knew I loved what you guys were creating. So thank you for joining me today to talk to the listeners.

Heather MacKenzie [00:01:58]:

Really happy to be here, Erica. Yeah, I'm really excited.

Erica Bennett [00:02:02]:

Yeah, so I found you just because I thought your content was awesome, but then I had the chance to see you in a summit the other month, and we had a chance to connect and actually talk, and I learned more about what you guys are actually doing. So tell our listeners what your business is about, because, oh, my God, do I wish that I had found this when I was going through my process.

Heather MacKenzie [00:02:21]:

Yeah, so many people say that when I meet them. If I meet people who've been through a divorce, especially one that was just long and drawn out, but basically what Hello, Divorce does, and it's hellodivorce.com, if you want to check it out. And on Insta. Like Erica said it's at hello, divorce. We are a full service divorce platform basically what we're doing is trying to tone down all of the stress and complication of divorce by making really easy to access content. It's very easy to understand. And then our software platform actually removes almost all of the complication from filling out all those divorce forms. That is such a stressful part of this process.

Heather MacKenzie [00:03:05]:

A lot of people pay attorneys to do it for them, which is really costly and expensive if you think about divorce being 80% paperwork. But what we've also done, which is really unique in juxtaposition to other online divorce companies, is we have integrated really awesome services as well. So if you get stuck at any time in the divorce process, there's a hand that's going to reach out and be able to get you unstuck. We have mediation, we have attorneys, and we have divorce finance experts as well as divorce coaches. And these are all available by the hour with no huge thousands of dollars retainer. Use it if you need it, don't use it if you don't. And what we're really finding is it's that security of having everything under one roof, it's there if you need it, that gives people the confidence to really just get everything done in their divorce, get through it, and move on to their next best chapter.

Erica Bennett [00:04:05]:

Yeah, and I think that was the part that I thought was so cool because I just remember when I was starting my divorce process, I mean, twice in my process, I had to go back and find another lawyer, right? We had the first round when I finally decided, like, this is just not working and you know, you are interviewing and you're trying to find somebody and maybe you don't even know anybody that's divorced, so what are you doing a random Google search and reading testimonials and hoping that it's the right fit? And I just remember the second time I had to go through it, it was now, like done. It was more intense because he wasn't showing up. He wasn't doing what he was supposed to do in the divorce decree. And I was pissed and angry and now I wanted answers now. And so it was just hard. I just remember I'd get home from work and it was fall, it was dark and rainy, and I was like madly googling and calling all these offices and being like, can I get a consult? And they're like, sure, in two weeks. And it was so difficult to find the support. And I say it all the time in Facebook groups, right? Anybody know a lawyer? Anybody know what I can do in these situations? So I love the fact that you guys have access to all these services on top of like, you just get the mindset of the divorced person and what they're going through.

Erica Bennett [00:05:10]:

So whether you guys are like phase one you're contemplating - it super amazing resource to understand what you're about to go through and to know that there's other options. It's totally true. I paid my thousands of dollars to have somebody file my paperwork for me because we wrote our agreements. We did all the negotiating at our own kitchen table. We didn't have lawyers at a big table. I just needed somebody to fill out the form. And then I served him. I got him to sign it on the hood of my car in his work parking lot.

Erica Bennett [00:05:40]:

I did all the work, but I had to pay somebody.

Heather MacKenzie [00:05:43]:

It really sucks to pay like, $500 an hour for somebody that maybe is just thinking about you that day, too, like a little bit. The other thing that most people don't really understand when they're starting the divorce process because I feel like so many people just get stuck in this just purgatory. They don't know what to do next. They've made that really hard decision to go forward with a divorce. Maybe they haven't even talked to their spouse about it yet, but in their own minds, they've made it up. That process already is so stressful and taxing. Most of our clients tell us that it can take them anywhere from two to ten years of thinking about divorce before they even take the first step of even googling it. And if the next step is you have to, like you said, run around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to find a divorce attorney.

Heather MacKenzie [00:06:35]:

Maybe you live in a town when there's only one divorce attorney and everybody you know has used them. Maybe you live in a town with a million of them and you have no idea who to pick. And the other truth is, and I know anybody who's probably dealt with an attorney, no offense to any attorneys listening is the number one thing about attorneys is they're not great at customer service, so they're only open from nine to five when you're probably at your job, too. They're not going to incentivize to call you back quickly or email you back because honestly, the longer your divorce takes, the longer they have to chip away at your retainer, right? So we've sort of flipped that entire idea of the first thing you have to do is hire an attorney on its head. The truth is, to file for divorce in every state, you really don't have to have an attorney to start the process. Starting the process isn't making all of your decisions. Starting the process is just starting. It's just telling your spouse and your state and your county that you are starting the divorce process.

Heather MacKenzie [00:07:40]:

And it starts the clock running on whatever length of waiting period you might have in your state, and it just starts the ball rolling. You're going to be able to pace your divorce on your own time. The court is not going to just throw it out if you're not done in a certain amount of time. I mean, unless it's years, then they will throw it out, but you filing. Making that first step to just file means you are being proactive and you have made a decision. And I have to tell you, so many of our clients tell us that it feels like bags of rocks have just been lifted off their shoulders by just filling out that first form and letting somebody else outside of their own head know that they're starting the divorce process.

Erica Bennett [00:08:25]:

Yeah, it's such a journey. We think it's like, oh, it just has to get filed or it just has to get signed or just has to get whatever. But it's so many steps in the interim. And even once you make the decision, then the number of answers and decisions that you have to make really start. Like, this is the tip of the iceberg. And that's what gets really exhausting and draining on your energy is that you probably took years. Ruminating do I stay or do I go? You finally made the decision to go and you think you're like, oh God, it's going to now be relief and now the real work starts.

Heather MacKenzie [00:08:55]:

Especially if you Google divorce or divorce attorney because it's so scary. There's just so much content online right now too. That's just fear mongering. I mean, you must consult an attorney to start your divorce process. They basically are telling you you're going to get screwed if you don't talk to a bulldog divorce attorney. If you think about how that begins, then is the first thing your spouse gets is they get served by somebody. And basically the first papers in divorce, unfortunately, are like, this is a lawsuit, you're being sued. And it just sets your entire process up for antagonization.

Heather MacKenzie [00:09:38]:

And we really believe that there's a different way. I don't care how you feel about your spouse. You could hate every being in the same room with them, never want to talk to them again. But if you can move through the divorce process in a kind of as even keeled way as possible, it really can help your own mindset as you just contemplate what your life is going to be like on the other side of this.

Erica Bennett [00:10:02]:

Yeah, I think one more lawyer comment. But lawyers are like therapists. There are good ones and there are bad ones, and you got to keep researching and interviewing till you find the one that's the right fit. There's lots of lawyers I talked to that I literally was like, did I just walk 50 years back in history to a big dude behind a big desk and I'm going to take him to court? And I'm like, what?

Heather MacKenzie [00:10:26]:

Everything? Yes.

Erica Bennett [00:10:27]:

Good Lord. So anyways, find the right one, right? You got to find the right one.

Heather MacKenzie [00:10:32]:

And there are good divorce attorneys out there. They're few and far between, but there are definitely good ones out there. We actually even have a trusted network on our site of divorce attorneys. If you do need a litigator that we vet, we go through all the ringers. So if you're in a state where we have one of those, we've already done all the research for you.

Erica Bennett [00:10:53]:

Yeah. So I think it just helps to relieve a lot of stress. It's the footwork beforehand, like they're just.

Heather MacKenzie [00:11:00]:

Bringing you beforehand, but then, like you said, you are barreled right back. You finally come to the top of a hill where you've made this really hard decision and then you slide right back down again because you're overwhelmed by not even knowing what to do next. And what we've done really is just divide divorce into three steps because there's pretty much the same components, whatever state you're in, of the divorce process. And honestly, the first step is the easiest because like I said before, we're not making any decisions in that first step. We're just putting it out in the world that we are starting the divorce process. You can always have an agreement before you start the divorce process. That's fine, but we like to tell people that for an uncontested divorce, you really don't have to agree on anything except the fact that you want to agree by the end of the process.

Erica Bennett [00:11:55]:

Yeah. I think to me, the thing that was so exhausting, right, was the constant work, the constant negotiation, and the constant checking myself. Like, when am I acting out of anger? When am I acting out of not in my child's best interest? And so to constantly be working on that while trying to do a really big business negotiation can tax your system totally.

Heather MacKenzie [00:12:22]:

And I like that you said business because for a lot of our clients, they think about they come into this with entitlement like, what am I entitled to? And of course, the divorce attorney mentality is really like, we're going to try to get as much as we possibly can out of the other person because I don't want to win for you. And we approach it a little bit differently. Because if you are trying to get through this process fairly quickly, or at least keeping your head on straight and not spending tons and tons of time and money going back and forth and back and forth, if you start from a place that you think about, well, what's fair for both of us? It doesn't mean it needs to be 50 50, but what's fair? And you can have your own justifications for fairness and your spouse can have their own justifications for fairness. If you have lawyers, they're probably going to say what's fair for you is a lot more than the other person is getting and the other side is going to have that way too. So you have a lot of negotiation you have to do to meet somewhere. But what we really try to reorient is the idea of having a neutral third party, maybe have that conversation with both of you. And that would be a mediator or a CDFA, which is a certified divorce financial analyst, basically an accountant who specializes in division of divorce assets. Having that third party that's neutral who can work with both of you in the conversation really defangs a lot of it because you have your own grudges and feelings about your spouse.

Heather MacKenzie [00:14:00]:

If you say to your spouse, well, what I feel like what is really fair is that I get more money because I put my career on hold to move to XYZ City with you for your career. If it comes from you, they just think you're trying to get more and punish them. If that same phrase came from a mediator who's a neutral third party who's not on either one of your side and is just talking about what's fair in the context of division of divorce assets, it suddenly sounds pretty reasonable, and it can be a really good way. I always hear, like, my spouse would never do mediation. Never. And I would challenge that. It's always worth a try. $300 for 1 hour of mediation is not a lot of money to test the waters and see if it's a method that could work.

Erica Bennett [00:14:53]:

Yeah, and I think that same thing, though, as you're saying, hey, this is what's fair for me, I do want to throw out the thing that you also have to check yourself and be like, is what I'm asking for fair for my partner, or am I asking for yeah. And that was a big thing in my negotiations with my ex. And again, we literally did it while we made dinner. Was that yes. There were times when I wanted to be like, I deserve to get all the profits of the house because I've paid every single mortgage that we've been in here. And he's like, yeah, but I paid other bills. This was part of our agreement. And so we had to come to a place where I had to check my own self and be like, yeah.

Erica Bennett [00:15:32]:

Would it feel nice to not share any of the profits of the sale of the home? Yes. Does it set either of us up for success? Like, am I winning at his expense? Which doesn't help my child if my child doesn't have two houses that work out of it. So being able to come from a neutral place, not from an attacking place, can happen when you take the time for yourself and know that you're doing what your heart wants.

Heather MacKenzie [00:15:58]:

Exactly. And also if you work within the framework of kind of like how actually the courts look at things. So most states have a calculation for child support. They may have one for spousal support. There's a lot of subjective factors that go into it. But if you think about it, really the motivation behind those calculations is really trying to make sure that neither spouse is unduly punished by the divorce. The courts don't really want to see one spouse get everything. And one spouse really have to go very far down on their standard of living because of the divorce and likewise the children.

Heather MacKenzie [00:16:40]:

So you might both take a hit on your standard of living honestly, because that's what happens. You don't have a dual income family anymore, but if you think about coming to a negotiation with the mindset of, like, okay, how can we both be set up so that neither one of us is falling all the way off the cliff in terms of our standard of living? And our kids are having a relatively similar lifestyle that they had before. If you start there, everything kind of starts to become feeling more fair.

Erica Bennett [00:17:11]:

Yeah, it is so true. You hire a lawyer because their job is to fight for you and win and win. That is their job, and that's why you hired them. And so as we're talking about this too, I just want to highlight we're not saying you're just supposed to give in or no.

Heather MacKenzie [00:17:28]:

Roll over. No, exactly. You're not going to roll over.

Erica Bennett [00:17:32]:

No, this is about having access to the knowledge so that you can create some healthy boundaries. You can really stand on a ground that is what you're choosing, based on what's best for all parties, not what you're reacting to because you're hurt, not what you're demanding, because you want to get back and get even, but from a place of like, hey, I can do this. Because at one point, we loved each other, and at one point, I would have done anything for you. And so I still want to show up with that energy, but I also need to protect myself because we're both hurting and we're both going to do things that maybe are not what we would have done when we were in love.

Heather MacKenzie [00:18:09]:

Right. We mentioned the word business a few minutes ago, but I really like the analogy of thinking about this as a business negotiation. In a business negotiation, you are not going to just give up everything when you're negotiating with somebody else and let them take everything. In a business negotiation, one party might seem like they're getting more benefit, but the other party might be getting something else. Maybe it's not a monetary benefit, but maybe it's a lifestyle benefit. So if you have that mindset and I'm not trying to downplay the momentous decision that divorce is because it's such a hard decision. It's not just another day at the office, but you've already made that decision. The hard work is already done with the decision to get a divorce.

Heather MacKenzie [00:18:54]:

Really, if you can make the process of actually doing the business negotiation afterward less stressful, why wouldn't you want to do that? And especially for parents, I always remind our clients, you're always going to be co parents. You're always going to be in this person's life. And I much rather even if I'm seeing my co parent from afar for the children's exchange of time with the parent, I don't want to think about look at them with complete resentment for the next 15 years. It doesn't really feel very healthy to me, so I'd rather just be neutral. Right. That feeling.

Erica Bennett [00:19:32]:

Yeah. And I think that that's the thing. Like, looking at somebody, if this season is about energy management, if you're showing up and you are constantly looking at somebody with resentment and bitterness and anger, that is not impacting their world, it's impacting yours. And it's exhausting and it's draining and it creates that same level of hatred in other aspects of your life. It literally is poisoning yourself and it does nothing for the other person.

Heather MacKenzie [00:20:01]:

Absolutely. And in reflecting that too, we're talking about being stuck. Those feelings keep you stuck, like you're getting a divorce. You felt stuck in your relationship. For most people felt stuck in their relationship before they make the decision to get a divorce. Then you feel stuck with, how do you negotiate this, get through this process? But then you're just setting yourself up for a lifetime of being stuck. And for us, we really like to think about, this can be sounds kind of cheesy, but this can be your next best chapter. Eating a bowl of cereal that you picked out at Target and didn't have to think about anybody else in your family all on your own is a really awesome feeling.

Heather MacKenzie [00:20:46]:

And I use that as a metaphor for anything that you're deciding to do. But if your resentful, whatever the cereal is, isn't going to taste so good.

Erica Bennett [00:21:00]:

Yeah.

Hey, guys, it's Erica. I want to personally invite you to join the Crazy Ex Wives Club, cohort this is a small group coaching program that I am thrilled to be leading. If you're a woman navigating the rocky waters of divorce, I know how challenging it can be and it's why I created this program. I truly believe it can make a difference in your journey. Each week we'll meet for 60 Minutes and I'll be right there with you, guiding you through the healing transformation of the three phases, from those uncertain moments in your marriage to the overwhelming after world of divorce. We're going to conquer it together. You'll learn how to line up to what you want, you'll find yourself and you'll get your feet underneath you to thrive in your new world. And the group isn't just about coaching, it's about community.

You'll have the chance to connect with others who understand what you're going through. And I'll be there to provide expert guidance and answer all of your questions. So if you're tired of feeling alone on the path, if you're ready to experience guided development, support and the warmth of a community that truly gets it, this is your invitation. Don't hesitate. Check out the details at the Crazyxwivesclub.com and take that first step towards healing and thriving. I can't wait to meet you and be a part of your journey towards a brighter future. The Crazy Xwise Club Cohort is your path to empowerment. So what are you waiting for? I promise you won't regret it. You guys go check it out, and.

 

Erica Bennett [00:22:34]:

Know, no matter what, phase of moving forward you guys are in, this feeling of being stuck, right? Feels really overwhelming and really disempowering. Like, I don't have the ability to make a decision. And so I always talk about in every single choice, it's the path of least resistance. You can make either choice, but which one feels better in the moment. So right now, it might feel better to bitch about your ex. Okay, well, tomorrow ask yourself if that really helped, if that really moved you forward. Is that really something that is propelling you into this next best chapter? And you guys, I went through years where I filed, right? Like, we had two years of separation. I knew what I was doing.

Erica Bennett [00:23:16]:

I grieved heavily when I finally made the call, and then life got really good, and then life took a little bump downward again, right? Work got hard, and it wasn't aligning with my heart anymore. And where do you think I shifted? I went back to blame. Like, how dare my ex do this? How dare he cheat? How dare he force this hand? How dare he make me have to start over? And I got stuck again in that same pattern of blaming. Instead of like, let's move forward, what's the next step that I can take?

Heather MacKenzie [00:23:46]:

Right? I talked to so many people too. It's like, we are here when you need us too. Sometimes being unstuck isn't just filing that paperwork. We're not pushing you to get through your divorce as fast as possible, but maybe it's just doing some research or some reading or having a game plan. We have so many pieces of content on our site that are downloads, they're checklists. One of my favorite ones is pre leaving checklist because you'ren't separated yet. But just going through a checklist of all the stuff you have to gather together and make sure you have the information before you get a divorce can help you feel really prepared. And maybe that's the only thing you do that month, maybe it's the only thing you do that year, but that alone can help you.

Heather MacKenzie [00:24:34]:

Okay? You made a micro decision one step forward. How does it feel? Like, try it on doing that list, does that feel good to you? Because that can also help you if you're worried about whether you're making the right decision or not, that can also help you kind of have a self check in and see how those baby micro steps make you feel. And there's no consequences because nobody knows that you're doing that except for you. Yeah.

Erica Bennett [00:25:00]:

And those were the kind of things, like, a lawyer knows, but they don't know. Right? And that's not what you're paying them to help you out with you're not paying them to hold your hand or to help you figure out how to move through things. And so having access to these kind of checklists and education, then download it and take a look at it and then ask yourself, does it feel good to be thinking about this level or does it not? And use that as your guiding factor. Like, oh, it doesn't feel good? Okay, put it aside for a little bit. But then ask yourself, why doesn't it feel good? What am I afraid of? Is it because I don't want the divorce? Or am I just afraid to move forward? That education can be so empowering and it doesn't mean that you have to continue down the path, but it's showing you like, hey, we're going to shine it's like the one next step, we're going to shine the flashlight out for you so you can see a couple of steps ahead of you.

Heather MacKenzie [00:25:47]:

Exactly. And it also can have a lot of other benefits too. A lot of the people I talk to, most couples have some kind of imbalance in work sharing, right? And maybe one of the members of the couple is usually like the one more in charge of finances. I talked to a lot of the spouse who's the other person who maybe didn't have as much access to the finances. A lot of the time those people are women and I'm not saying that to genderize it, but it's just natural division of households. A lot of time it happens that way. Just the act of finding out where all the bank accounts are, looking at all the credit cards, getting your own login for all the credit cards. I'm married and I certainly do not have all the logins for my credit cards.

Heather MacKenzie [00:26:33]:

And I think about this a lot because I'm like I think this is something you should know. I think a lot of people also blame themselves for not knowing more about that stuff. You got to put that stuff out of your head. Time is now. Get as much information as you possibly can. I always say information is power. And I think you'll start to actually feel more self reliant as well going through these steps, which is a huge important part of divorce as well because you come from this probably codependent relationship and now you're forging out on your own. Doing all this stuff at once can be super overwhelming and scary. But taking one step at a time and that's why again, that's why we love these checklists and sort of articles, reading up about things.

Heather MacKenzie [00:27:20]:

We write everything in really easy to understand language. We take all the legalese out of it and we definitely don't demonize the other spouse in any of our content. So it's like not triggering for you when you're reading through our content because we just don't feel like that's productive. And taking these little small steps, even if you do. One thing, like once a week can really start to make you understand who you are without that other person.

Erica Bennett [00:27:47]:

Yeah. Because the goal is at a pace you're comfortable with, to continue to move forward down a path that works for you. So we're not trying to jump anywhere. But that whole I talk about gas pedal, brake pedal. Right. I want to go forward. Oh my God, I don't. I want to go forward.

Erica Bennett [00:28:02]:

Oh my God, I don't. That is super taxing on your system because you get all your energy pointed in one direction and then you slam on the brakes. Right. Just like in your car, if that's how you drove gas pedal straight up to the next bumper slam on the brakes, you would go through a lot more gas than if you just tried to coast and move through traffic and figure out what is it that I want to do next without rushing.

Heather MacKenzie [00:28:25]:

Exactly. And with a platform like ours too, we really do see that people kind of self paced. Some people come and they're like, we're ready. We've thought about this, we've talked about it. We did all of our therapy. We've made a decision, and they get through the process in the shortest amount of time their state allows. We have other people who pause for a month, a year. We had one client just emailed us yesterday.

Heather MacKenzie [00:28:51]:

They said they were finding getting all of their bank information together overwhelming. And the holidays are coming up and they just like to pause until after the holidays. And their spouse agreed and that's fine. They were on a payment plan. We put their payment plan on pause and we're ready to start back up whenever they want. And that could be a year from now. We have clients that come back to us. A year from now.

Heather MacKenzie [00:29:14]:

We have some clients who reconcile and go away from our platform. For several years, we've had one or two of them come back to us. So really, self pacing, this is part of your power. You can move at your own speed.

Erica Bennett [00:29:30]:

And it's super important because the triggers are going to come up because you've probably not gone through this before. Some of you have, most people haven't.

Heather MacKenzie [00:29:38]:

But it's okay if you have. It's still new process.

Erica Bennett [00:29:42]:

Yeah. And I just remember there were things when I hit a speed bump was because something had triggered me that I didn't realize. Like the one that I think about the most often is we got through all of it. I was super comfortable with our decisions. I had brought the decisions back to the lawyer. We were working through the fine tuning. I was just turning them over and she was making sure she had all the paperwork. And then she's like, okay, great.

Erica Bennett [00:30:02]:

Do you want to sign the name change form right now? And I just remember having that whole body, like head to toe hot flash this was my PTSD reactions, right. And I didn't know it at the time, but I knew all of a sudden, it was like chills throughout my body. I couldn't breathe, my heart was racing. I'm now trying not to cry. And I'm like, what is going? I've literally just turned over the agreement that I feel really good with and I can't make this decision right now. And I had to make it on the spot, right.

Heather MacKenzie [00:30:30]:

And so I made it blindsided by not knowing that the divorce process is the one time that you can change your name back to a name you formerly had for free without any other paperwork. And if you have to do it later, it takes a lot of paperwork and a lot of hassle. Yeah. Nobody told you that because didn't even think probably to even mention it to you, right.

Erica Bennett [00:30:53]:

To mention it ahead, right. Because she did say she's like, hey, it's easier right now. You can absolutely do it at any time, but it's just easier right now. Well, if I had had that on my list to ponder a month ago, I probably would have been lined up to a different answer, right. But in the moment, I wasn't really ready. I was still grieving the loss of this identity that I had had for the last 15 years. My son.

Heather MacKenzie [00:31:17]:

You have to think about last names and children and all of that. Those are hard decisions.

Erica Bennett [00:31:22]:

Yeah. And so it was like, oh, my gosh. And it wasn't until years later, right? Like, years later, because he had ended up staying with the other woman and they had got kind of engaged right away, and it stayed in that engaged phase until it ended. But it was at that point that I'm like, oh, wait, if they actually get married, how weird is it for that other woman? And then I felt really bad, right? Like, I was having this conversation with my kid and I was like, oh, do you think she's going to take your dad's name? Because then maybe I need to go do this process. Because I have now come to terms with letting go of who that was. But in the moment, that was not a decision I could make. And so I made a rash decision instead of a reflective decision, which I think happens a lot.

Heather MacKenzie [00:32:04]:

It does. And we really try to always pre warn you for all of these things because, again, information is power. I don't want somebody to get to the end of their process and be surprised or shocked by something that pops up in the divorce process. And that happens more than you would think. I mean, other examples are you finally run the child support calculation and it's not the number that you expected it would be. And even if your spouse and you have decided on another number, maybe that's the thing that takes you down. So let's run that calculation early in the process so everybody knows what we're dealing with. Those are examples of things that I think you're exactly right, Erica.

Heather MacKenzie [00:32:50]:

Attorneys, they don't think to tell you because that's not their job. Their job is to put your agreement together in a way that the court will accept it.

Erica Bennett [00:32:59]:

That is their job 100%. Yeah. And they want to be the best at their job. So you have to stop expecting them to be all the other things, because that's not fair.

Heather MacKenzie [00:33:07]:

They're not your therapist. They're not your customer service person. They're not good at those things because they're lawyers. That's what they're good at. And sometimes you need a lawyer, but I would say almost 100% of the time, you do not need a lawyer to start the divorce process. You may want to talk to one at some point in the process, and that's why we have attorneys, too, but you probably don't need to start with one. And our model is we have a helpful, very knowledgeable person about procedural court filing and these forms and the kinds of topics you're going to have to answer. And that is just so much more effective with getting people through at least the first part of the process.

Erica Bennett [00:33:50]:

Yeah, I didn't realize it in the moment, but because a divorce is such an emotional process, I really wanted my lawyer to be my friend because I didn't have anybody else who knew this was now an expert who knew about divorce. And so it's like, okay, I've buddied up to you, and I want you to be my friend, and I want you to be available when he does something that drives me nuts. And I want you to tell me that there's, like, a legal repercussion, and so being able to separate those two, where are you getting the support you need? Where are you getting the legal guidance that you need? And knowing that there's a lot of options out there helps to alleviate that stress and keep you supported while you're doing it.

Heather MacKenzie [00:34:29]:

Exactly. And I'm not sure a lawyer is the best support person either. Even if they were doing that for you. They're looking out for you legally, and that is their job. You're absolutely right. Personality wise, we really choose the people who work at Hello Divorce. One of our things that we hire for, and the number one thing is empathy. And then the other thing that we really try to do is get back to you as fast as we possibly can because we know how anxious this time is. Everybody's anxiety is heightened.

Heather MacKenzie [00:35:01]:

I always say our clients aren't really the people that they probably are outside of this process, everything is heightened, and we understand that. And so we meet you calmly and try to alleviate fears as much as we can and give you all the information you could possibly need to help you make an informed decision.

Erica Bennett [00:35:22]:

Yeah. We have shared so many tips for you to maintain your energy, right? But let's see, we've got go at your own pace. So there's no one size fits all for how fast you have to go. So pick a pace that feels good and you'll know it because it feels good. So if you feel triggered, give yourself a break, walk away, do something else to line up with yourself and then come back to it. Knowledge is power. Knowledge just creates less stress because there's less of you ruminating in your own head of what could happen or how it's going to go. So being able to have that awareness, knowing what's coming, so you're not triggered doing your best, you're never going to know all of it.

Erica Bennett [00:36:01]:

You're going to be triggered in the process. But if you can stop 25% of those triggers because you had the right access to information at the right time, what else do you think? Are there any other big takeaways that you have for somebody to help them.

Heather MacKenzie [00:36:17]:

With their yeah, I think the thing about being stuck, I think you really - micro steps. You don't have to jump in the pool off the high dive, you can dip your toe in. And like I said, maybe that's just getting all the information about the stuff in your house. Maybe that's thinking about where you might want to live after the divorce happens and imagining that or kind of imagining what you might want your life to look like in a year. Now, I always say give yourself, put you that future timeline a year out, because the first year is just everybody's reeling and you just got to try to keep it together.

Erica Bennett [00:36:55]:

It's really like 18 months before you kind of settle into your new role.

Heather MacKenzie [00:36:58]:

Like that.

Erica Bennett [00:36:59]:

18 months. It's a real thing. I love visualizing, so I think that's another really powerful tool for you guys to visualize. And when you're in the process, visualize everybody getting through it in a positive manner, visualize what would it look like to sit at a mediation table where it's actually collaborative and helpful and a beautiful process, versus squaring off at the table and being in a lawyer fight. Visualize all those pieces, like the best case scenario, how do you want it to go? And I bet if you tune in to your little heart and you visualize a good thing, you don't see yourself getting all the money, you see it being fair.

Heather MacKenzie [00:37:37]:

Exactly. And we do these free 15 minutes informational calls with people who just talk about anything, really. It's just your time with us to chat about your divorce process, if it might be a good fit, what should you do? Anything. And one of my colleagues always asks the question, and I love this, she always asks callers, when you imagine what you want your divorce to look like, what does that look like to you? And I think that's a really powerful way to kind of set yourself up for success here, as well as whatever success means to you in the divorce process, because most people are not imagining bitterly fighting it out to the end in front of a judge and everything burning down in its path. You might be thinking that and that's you and that's okay, you can definitely have that divorce. But I think for most people, it's not that some people don't want to go there, but I think it's good to kind of look at the scary stuff, too, as you're going through this process, even if it's just a little toe dip.

Erica Bennett [00:38:40]:

Yeah. You guys are going to come up with how you want it to go, and it might not go that way. I knew that I started with, like, pie in the sky. Right. We were good.

Heather MacKenzie [00:38:50]:

Like a birth plan, right?

Erica Bennett [00:38:51]:

Yeah.

Heather MacKenzie [00:38:52]:

Right?

Erica Bennett [00:38:52]:

It's a birth plan. It is. 100%. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, my gosh, we are going to be such good friends. We're going to co-family vacation together, and it's just one big, happy, extended family, and it is so far from that.

But I had to start with that dream and that vision, which guided a lot of how I chose to show up so I could check myself, because I didn't want to have angry, unhappy, contested divorce. And we landed somewhere in the middle. We're civil. We're not friends. I don't want to be friends anymore.

Heather MacKenzie [00:39:22]:

And you are a different person than you were when you had that idea of what you wanted it to look like, too, because you've had the time to settle into yourself, right?

Erica Bennett [00:39:30]:

Yeah. And just figure out, like, hey, this is okay. This is okay for it to look this way instead of a different way.

Heather MacKenzie [00:39:37]:

Right. Like, are you individually happy? Is your kid individually happy? Those are the things that are important when you're looking at it. And it's totally okay for things to not go the way you thought they were going to.

Erica Bennett [00:39:48]:

Yeah, 100%. So I know you also have an offer for everybody. You got a little something something for the listeners.

Heather MacKenzie [00:39:56]:

So we have a tool called a Marital Settlement Agreement on our site, and it is basically a piece of software that you can answer all the questions about how you might want to do your parenting plan and divide your assets in a divorce. And actually, the output of it is a contract that if you and your spouse sign, it would be a legally binding contract that basically outlines all of your agreement terms. It can be a good tool for you to just use by yourself to map out what you might want. I think sometimes it's a good tool to put back and forth, like use back and forth with your spouse to see what you guys might be still stuck on before you go into mediation. But we are going to offer everybody it's $100 we offer everybody $25 off and it's a lifetime. You can always use it. It's a 30 page Word document is the output, so you can edit it yourself.

Erica Bennett [00:40:52]:

Afterwards, you guys will put the link in the code in a couple of places. It'll be in all of the episode description, so make sure in there. We'll also have the social media and the website so you can find hello divorce. We'll also put it on the website. So the crazyxwivesclub.com. When you go under episodes, you'll get all the details for this episode, so everything will be in there for you. I think that that is such an amazing tool. And like you said, even just for personal use, because when your mind is so scattered, you don't realize all the division of stuff.

Erica Bennett [00:41:25]:

You get the big stuff, oh, the house and the cars and how are we going to do this? But there's so many other pieces and so it's like somebody's holding your hand and guiding you through a question at a time.

Heather MacKenzie [00:41:35]:

We even have pet custody in there, and if you have any kind of digital currency crypto, we mention those. And if you don't have those things, you don't have to fill that part out. You just skip over it. And again, knowledge is power. Even knowing all the stuff that should go into a settlement agreement, like this is a really good way to start your divorce because you're starting to think about it.

Erica Bennett [00:41:57]:

Yeah. So I love that. So you guys can get all the information either in the little show description or at The Crazyxwivesclub.com. Thank you so much, Heather, for joining me today. Super.

Heather MacKenzie [00:42:08]:

You're so welcome.

Erica Bennett [00:42:09]:

Empowering conversation, right? You guys, there are so many amazing resources out there nowadays that didn't exist ten years ago. So I'm grateful for the work that you guys are doing to help everybody out. And listeners, just a reminder, pop over to your podcast platform. Subscribe, leave a review, right? If you liked our episode, definitely let everybody know what you loved about it. Reshare it on your social sharing is caring as we get this information out into the hands of the people that need it. So thank you guys for tuning in, do a little research and we'll talk to you all next week. And that's it.

Heather MacKenzie [00:42:45]:

Another great episode of The Crazy Ex Wives Club, a podcast for women learning how to heal from their divorce. Tune in next week for more advice and tips to help you figure out life after divorce. And until then, give yourself grace, do the best you can and know that this is all part of the process.